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How quiet can you get a spring airgun?
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Author:  HuskyDude [ Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

Image
Quietness is a relative term.
Kinda reminds me of that joke when two guys meet a bear in a bush....1st guys says "Why are you taking your boots off, You'll never outrun a bear"...
2nd guy " I don't have to outrun the bear just have to outrun you". :mrgreen:
You don't need to make your Ruger Airhawk quiet...you just need to have something louder then it...
When was the last time you cut you Mom's lawn???? Bet that mower can be heard a few houses away....
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Author:  leadslinger [ Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

HuskyDude wrote:
You don't need to make your Ruger Airhawk quiet...you just need to have something louder then it...
When was the last time you cut you Mom's lawn???? Bet that mower can be heard a few houses away....
Image


But anything to drown the noise, might scare away the critters. Plus I haven't mowed mom lawn in years. I barely even mow my own. While both my neighbours be mowing weekly. Only some areas grow. The heat killed alot of my grass.

Author:  pete [ Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

let me get this straight now. you don,t wanna make a lot of noise in case it scares away the critters that you are going to kill with your loud pellet gun. sorry but the first part sounds a lot better than the latter. just had ta say.

Author:  leadslinger [ Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

pete wrote:
let me get this straight now. you don,t wanna make a lot of noise in case it scares away the critters that you are going to kill with your loud pellet gun. sorry but the first part sounds a lot better than the latter. just had ta say.


You're clearly not understanding the situation. At least with a loud airgun there be silence to line up a shot, and for the critters to come out. Then making noise, just to drown out the shot to not trigger the neighbors.

I'm sorry people cannot answer the actual question and putting their useless 2 cents.

DO you realize we are trying to be considerate to a Wife and Mother. That her husband killed himself mere feet away.

Author:  Yeager [ Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

Hi Leadsliger

I’m sorry I can’t help you how to quiet an airgun...
But I can advise you on how to determine if what you do his actually reducing the noise or not.
Fist of all let me tell you that I’m an Ocupationnal Health & Safety Manager. I’m not a sound specialist but I know a few things on sound exposure.

1: You can’t rely on human ears to accurately estimate the difference between two noise.
Sound level double every 3 decibels but to the average human ear a 10 dB increase is considered as “twice as loud”. So 10 dB increase it’s actually more than 8 times louder!
2: You can’t tell subtle difference in sounds thru non calibrated equipment (I.e. you tube videos, recordings, cell phones microphones and speakers.)
3: The only way to get consistent results is by using a Sound Meter.
4: You can download a free Sound meter App. Any one will do... You don’t need an accurate one. You just need consistant readings from shot to shot. Personnaly I use the App “SLA Lite” from the developer TOON,LLQ. I gett the same readings with my iPhone then with my professional Type 2 instrument I use at work.
5: All your tests will have to be done with the same set up every time. (Phone position, distance from muzzle, outdoors same spot or indoors same room same distance from walls, etc.)
6: Whatever App you are using it must be set on dBA scale and to “Fast” setting.
7: Change one variable at a time (ex: pellet weight). Record several shots then avarage out the sound levels results.
8: I understand you can’t decide where your game will be positioned but your greatest sound reducing ally is Distance as you will see in this table. (In French but self explanatory)
Attachment:
6B2E9758-691C-4FF4-A87B-1DAC1F8304FA.png
6B2E9758-691C-4FF4-A87B-1DAC1F8304FA.png [ 64.97 KiB | Viewed 373 times ]

9: Finally take some measurements on the outer edge of the property from your most probable shooting position. Then using the table extrapolate what would be noise level of the person you do not want to disturb. The lower the better but below 70 dB should be ok.

Author:  leadslinger [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

Yeager wrote:
Hi Leadsliger

I’m sorry I can’t help you how to quiet an airgun...
But I can advise you on how to determine if what you do his actually reducing the noise or not.
Fist of all let me tell you that I’m an Ocupationnal Health & Safety Manager. I’m not a sound specialist but I know a few things on sound exposure.

1: You can’t rely on human ears to accurately estimate the difference between two noise.
Sound level double every 3 decibels but to the average human ear a 10 dB increase is considered as “twice as loud”. So 10 dB increase it’s actually more than 8 times louder!
2: You can’t tell subtle difference in sounds thru non calibrated equipment (I.e. you tube videos, recordings, cell phones microphones and speakers.)
3: The only way to get consistent results is by using a Sound Meter.
4: You can download a free Sound meter App. Any one will do... You don’t need an accurate one. You just need consistant readings from shot to shot. Personnaly I use the App “SLA Lite” from the developer TOON,LLQ. I gett the same readings with my iPhone then with my professional Type 2 instrument I use at work.
5: All your tests will have to be done with the same set up every time. (Phone position, distance from muzzle, outdoors same spot or indoors same room same distance from walls, etc.)
6: Whatever App you are using it must be set on dBA scale and to “Fast” setting.
7: Change one variable at a time (ex: pellet weight). Record several shots then avarage out the sound levels results.
8: I understand you can’t decide where your game will be positioned but your greatest sound reducing ally is Distance as you will see in this table. (In French but self explanatory)
Attachment:
6B2E9758-691C-4FF4-A87B-1DAC1F8304FA.png

9: Finally take some measurements on the outer edge of the property from your most probable shooting position. Then using the table extrapolate what would be noise level of the person you do not want to disturb. The lower the better but below 70 dB should be ok.


Thanks. I was using a sound meter app. But I haven't registered what at 30M it sounds like. I know indoors and semi outdoors. Its anywheres between 83/86 DB. Guess do more testings today.

Author:  leadslinger [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

Yeager thanks. I set up my Phone with DB app in a tree about 40m away. I know measured my spinners at 34m and the tree is about 2 - 3m further. Shot couple shots into the dirt about 60m away. And didn't register more then 76 DB. I was using 8.3's.

I was over feeding the barn cats. Figured the first house was little further like 50M. Since we shoot mainly off the porch.

So I'm guessing it should be okay now.

Author:  YepYep [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

I downloaded the app and just tried and I found sounds in the ear brings me the feeling about it's loud, low, sharp etc are not able to described well by the dB numbers....

I tested with my 46m, pellets hit an empty plastic bottle gave me 79 dB and hit the sheet metal shed wall gave me 80dB (I shot about 5m away and phone placed about 4m away to the targets. 7g R10 wadcutter @ 485 fps ).

But in my ear the pellet hitting the metal wall just way more louder and more as a noise than hitting the bottle....

Sent from my LG cellphone

Author:  Yeager [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

YepYep,
Several factors can come into play here...

First, the human ear has more sensitivity at higher frequency than low frequency. So a pellet hitting metal will appear to be louder than a plastic bottle even though they measured the same.
Secondly, the metal siding itself vibrated when hit by the pellet. So the sound emission was “bigger” than the plastic bottle. The sound level was about the same 79 versus 80 dB but your ears were fooled to beleive it was louder.
Lastly, past 20s everybody will have some earing loss, some more than others and not uniformly at all frequencies. One may loose more at higher frequency or at lower ones. So you may not ear some types of sound as well as others. You might think it was quieter but the data showed you otherwise.
That’s why a sound meter, like a chronograph, will level out all factors and give you a true reading.

Author:  YepYep [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

Thanks!! Always like to learn new stuffs!

I am thinking if our ears will think an accumulated sound louder? Like you said while I shot the metal wall, the vibration of the wall would 'enlarge' the sound feeling in our ear, but actually it's just 1dB louder...

And once I shot my CP99 besides the wall to let the pellet fly along the wall edge to hit the wasp hive up on the wall, the pellet just made a sharp whistle sound which feels much louder than the gun shot... And I think the gun only shoots less than 350fps...

Because if we can tune the gun better to eliminate the hammer bouncing etc, will likely make the gun feel much quieter in the ear?!

Sent from my LG cellphone

Author:  Yeager [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

Don’t want to highjack Leadslinger post... 8)
But my comment also apply to the original post subject.

Remember that you will always think that shooting an airgun rifle is louder compared to when you’re standing besides it. That’s because when shooting your cheek bone is right against the stock. The vibration of the rifle will be transmitted directly thru your facial bones to your ears.

Author:  leadslinger [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

Yeager wrote:
Don’t want to highjack Leadslinger post... 8)
But my comment also apply to the original post subject.

Remember that you will always think that shooting an airgun rifle is louder compared to when you’re standing besides it. That’s because when shooting your cheek bone is right against the stock. The vibration of the rifle will be transmitted directly thru your facial bones to your ears.


Go for it. It's helpful info.

Author:  Chevota [ Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

I would sand the main seal down to increase compression which will reduce piston impact noise. I can explain if needed bc you have to be careful how you do it. You may also need a new main seal since the oem is likely leaking which adds noise and reduces power.
That airsoft piston thing pzam posted would be a complete fail but you could improvize something that would work to some degree, but I think the bennie would be very small and not worth the huge effort, but you never know....
So imo sand the seal and use at least 10.5gr pellets, maybe even try some JSB 13.43.
The piston liner is a biggie imo, which you already did. Tar may help depending on how well you did the liner. I'm picky so when I do a liner it's as quiet as tar, but know that tar hurts power so what little bit quieter it may make it could be hurting more than you want.
Your xfer port is ~.165" right? I haven't tried it but a smaller port will be quieter. I'd say try .125", maybe even .120. Like a brass tube insert? Maybe as an experiment try a plastic one first. Not sure what it'll do to power but I can tell you a .165 port in a Crosman will hurt power so it might be a win win. I've been meaning to do this to a Diana 34 but it's back burner.
You can also put something in the cocking slot cuz lotza noise cummin outta there. Like fill it with a thick slab of silicone sealer then cut a slit w/ a razor for the linkage to slide thru. You may want to round the edge of the linkage so it slides rather than tears thru, and of course some lube. The linkage is likely rattling around so think about that too.
Yet another is wrapping rubber or foam around the gun. When shooting a Daisy Red Ryder at a friends house w/ his mom home one of us would shoot while the other gripped the barrel w/ both hands to help dampen it. Not great but it made the diff between shooting and busted.
People w/ syn stocks bennie from foam and/or silicone in the stock, but I was thinking maybe let some oil soak into the wood from the inside?
Some people bed the stock with thin closed cell foam, and while I don't believe it helps it shoot better it likey quiets it some. All this stff adds up....
For me in the US I use a suppressor, but you can do similar or better and be legal. At least I think. Make a huge suppressor from a box with bath towels or foam etc, but you don't attach it to the gun, you set it on the window sill or whatever and w/ the barrel a few inches in you shoot thru it. I don't know CA law but it's not attached which is what makes it ok in the US. I guess a shoebox size on up to a file box? Make a hole/path thru it maybe 2" dia, or oval if using a scope. I think as far as a neighbor is concerned that's your best bet.
Fyi my quietest springer is generic Crosman B18 that I did all my usual tuning etc to net 18ftlbs, then I removed the spring spacer which is 1.5" of preload on the spring. This brought the power down to 9ftlbs which will still take birds. You don't have a spacer but you could get a spare spring to tinker with by cutting down maybe 1/2" atta time to see how she works and if it's worth it.
Remember, the better the tune the quieter it'll be yet make more power. If you got it up to say 17ftlbs, then throttled back the spring to where you're at now it'll be even quieter. plus much easier to cock and more accurate since there's less piston violence. I'd go down to maybe 10ftlbs.
Lastly, if you have a 22LR you might try Aguila Colibri ammo. Its quieter than yrou gun is now as long as your 22LR barrel is long enough. I considre 22" a must.
That's my 2cents :)

Author:  leadslinger [ Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

Chevota wrote:
I would sand the main seal down to increase compression which will reduce piston impact noise. I can explain if needed bc you have to be careful how you do it. You may also need a new main seal since the oem is likely leaking which adds noise and reduces power.
That airsoft piston thing pzam posted would be a complete fail but you could improvize something that would work to some degree, but I think the bennie would be very small and not worth the huge effort, but you never know....
So imo sand the seal and use at least 10.5gr pellets, maybe even try some JSB 13.43.
The piston liner is a biggie imo, which you already did. Tar may help depending on how well you did the liner. I'm picky so when I do a liner it's as quiet as tar, but know that tar hurts power so what little bit quieter it may make it could be hurting more than you want.
Your xfer port is ~.165" right? I haven't tried it but a smaller port will be quieter. I'd say try .125", maybe even .120. Like a brass tube insert? Maybe as an experiment try a plastic one first. Not sure what it'll do to power but I can tell you a .165 port in a Crosman will hurt power so it might be a win win. I've been meaning to do this to a Diana 34 but it's back burner.
You can also put something in the cocking slot cuz lotza noise cummin outta there. Like fill it with a thick slab of silicone sealer then cut a slit w/ a razor for the linkage to slide thru. You may want to round the edge of the linkage so it slides rather than tears thru, and of course some lube. The linkage is likely rattling around so think about that too.
Yet another is wrapping rubber or foam around the gun. When shooting a Daisy Red Ryder at a friends house w/ his mom home one of us would shoot while the other gripped the barrel w/ both hands to help dampen it. Not great but it made the diff between shooting and busted.
People w/ syn stocks bennie from foam and/or silicone in the stock, but I was thinking maybe let some oil soak into the wood from the inside?
Some people bed the stock with thin closed cell foam, and while I don't believe it helps it shoot better it likey quiets it some. All this stff adds up....
For me in the US I use a suppressor, but you can do similar or better and be legal. At least I think. Make a huge suppressor from a box with bath towels or foam etc, but you don't attach it to the gun, you set it on the window sill or whatever and w/ the barrel a few inches in you shoot thru it. I don't know CA law but it's not attached which is what makes it ok in the US. I guess a shoebox size on up to a file box? Make a hole/path thru it maybe 2" dia, or oval if using a scope. I think as far as a neighbor is concerned that's your best bet.
Fyi my quietest springer is generic Crosman B18 that I did all my usual tuning etc to net 18ftlbs, then I removed the spring spacer which is 1.5" of preload on the spring. This brought the power down to 9ftlbs which will still take birds. You don't have a spacer but you could get a spare spring to tinker with by cutting down maybe 1/2" atta time to see how she works and if it's worth it.
Remember, the better the tune the quieter it'll be yet make more power. If you got it up to say 17ftlbs, then throttled back the spring to where you're at now it'll be even quieter. plus much easier to cock and more accurate since there's less piston violence. I'd go down to maybe 10ftlbs.
Lastly, if you have a 22LR you might try Aguila Colibri ammo. Its quieter than yrou gun is now as long as your 22LR barrel is long enough. I considre 22" a must.
That's my 2cents :)


Thanks, but problem was solved. People across the way were shooting geese.

But your idea of a range muffler wouldn't work being that we are not shooting from the same place. They're be okay from my stationary range. But not at the farm. Sometimes we shoot off the front porch, side porch, in the barn, around the barn.

Author:  Doc Sharptail [ Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How quiet can you get a spring airgun?

My favorite springer is in low/mid range power wise- low to mid 600's depending on pellet. The actual sound is "Thunk-pfft".
I think it's actually quieter than my 24" bbl 13-77 in .177. There's no bang or pop there at all.

I bought said springer used, and I believe it had a precision proper tune, and then was promptly and properly stored, long before I came into the picture. It's a BSA Meteor in .177.

All my other springers are " twang!!! thoink!!! bang!!!"
My detuned .177 optimus is the worst of the lot. I think I can actually hear the piston slamming into the end of the tube. I'd rate it's sound at somewhere between a .22 WMR and a 3" .410 bore...

-D.S.

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