Canadian Airgun Forum :: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...

Rather than saying aiming low I'd like to think of it as addressing a different sight picture. 10m being a constant distance and target size you don't need aim center, you just need to aim consistently. By aiming off target you get a very clear sight picture. If you were to aim center you would lose the benefit of the crisp front sight edges in the black of the target circle. Aiming using the dots on a conventional pistol sight or even worse, fiber optics, is far less accurate. Great for quick target aquisition but poor for precision relative to 10m air pistol.

I would say just aim at wherever you want... But you need to know where the pellet lands...

There's a documentary from a successful sniper... He adjusted his scope completely wrong and used the fine marks to aim... Reason? When he got killed and enemy picked up his sniper rifle they are not able to use it to kill his comrades because nobody know how to read his scope....

That's POA, Point of Aim and POI, Point of Impact... Then maybe a new word to you, groups/grouping...

An accurate gun put pellets at the same spot every time when you do your part well.

If the gun shoots high, 10 pellets at the same hole where 3 inches higher than the bullseye... That's a super accurate gun (maybe worth $2000~ [emoji38]) you only need to aim lower if you don't want to adjust the sights... Or, adjust the sights to align the POA to the POI...

And why we say adjust the front sight flush to the bottom of the bullseye just give you the chance to see what and where you are aiming... [emoji38]

Some ppl like to adjust the sights to cover the bullseye... It doesn't matter... Just follow your heart and use what you feel comfortable~

Nothing special~ not rocket science~

Irate, the low aiming in target shooting is called 6 o'clock hold. That means the flat topped front blade sight is evenly spaced in the rear light's notch and is level with the rear sights flat top. The "hold" of the 2 sights thus aligned, is at the juncture of the black centre and the buff coloured outer rings, thus at the 6 o'clock position.
As the 10M target never changes, the sights thus aligned, never have to be changed, unless a pellet change is made. Different pellets commonly shoot to different points of impact and thus the sights must be adjusted for them to shoot to the same location.

I personally could never get used to the 6 o’clock hold. It’s counterintuitive for me. I just adjust all my guns to aim at the bullseye. Rare to find one that can’t be set like that. I have had to max out a few target pistols that just weren’t meant for that type of aiming but, it worked for me. Whatever gets you on target!?

I guess when you buy a gun for 10m competition the manufacturer assumes you know at least a little about that competition.

Author:	iratecaller [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:	My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
Hi! Just throwing this into the "Airgun Target" section because it's related to how I thought we needed to aim at targets! Haha. I'm so new, totally green to 10m shooting (and all shooting) that I thought we are supposed to aim at the bullseye. So we need to aim low huh? Some guy on YouTube with a FAS 6004 took a file to his front sight because he couldn't hit the bullseye. He had returned his gun and dealt with the service dept a few times. The gun was shooting high. Crappy gun huh? Well ... Sadly, before purchasing the same gun (got it today, can't keep my hands off it) the specter of "the gun shoots high and I'll need to modify the gun" loomed large in my spirit. As it turns out, the people that make guns typically sell guns that work quite well. ... and you aim low in 10m. Blows my mind. We don't aim at the bullseye! POW! Mind blown. In other words: Good day folks. Just saying hello.

Author:	jckstrthmghty [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
Rather than saying aiming low I'd like to think of it as addressing a different sight picture. 10m being a constant distance and target size you don't need aim center, you just need to aim consistently. By aiming off target you get a very clear sight picture. If you were to aim center you would lose the benefit of the crisp front sight edges in the black of the target circle. Aiming using the dots on a conventional pistol sight or even worse, fiber optics, is far less accurate. Great for quick target aquisition but poor for precision relative to 10m air pistol.

Author:	YepYep [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
I would say just aim at wherever you want... But you need to know where the pellet lands... There's a documentary from a successful sniper... He adjusted his scope completely wrong and used the fine marks to aim... Reason? When he got killed and enemy picked up his sniper rifle they are not able to use it to kill his comrades because nobody know how to read his scope.... That's POA, Point of Aim and POI, Point of Impact... Then maybe a new word to you, groups/grouping... An accurate gun put pellets at the same spot every time when you do your part well. If the gun shoots high, 10 pellets at the same hole where 3 inches higher than the bullseye... That's a super accurate gun (maybe worth $2000~ [emoji38]) you only need to aim lower if you don't want to adjust the sights... Or, adjust the sights to align the POA to the POI... And why we say adjust the front sight flush to the bottom of the bullseye just give you the chance to see what and where you are aiming... [emoji38] Some ppl like to adjust the sights to cover the bullseye... It doesn't matter... Just follow your heart and use what you feel comfortable~ Nothing special~ not rocket science~

Author:	jckstrthmghty [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
Keeping in mind with 10m AP you are unsupported shooting with one hand. There is quite a bit of movement involved and you have to judge your trigger pull to those movements. When your POA is center with target sights you cannot easily distingush where you are actually aiming being the sights are black and the target circle is black. If you were shooting sport pistol with a 2moa reddot then sure, set your poi dead center. That works.

Author:	iratecaller [ Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
jckstrthmghty wrote: Rather than saying aiming low I'd like to think of it as addressing a different sight picture. 10m being a constant distance and target size you don't need aim center, you just need to aim consistently. By aiming off target you get a very clear sight picture. If you were to aim center you would lose the benefit of the crisp front sight edges in the black of the target circle. Aiming using the dots on a conventional pistol sight or even worse, fiber optics, is far less accurate. Great for quick target aquisition but poor for precision relative to 10m air pistol. Understood. That made a ton of sense. Thank you.

Canadian Airgun Forum https://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/

My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye... https://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/topic94260.html	Page 1 of 1

Author:	iratecaller [ Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
YepYep wrote: I would say just aim at wherever you want... But you need to know where the pellet lands... There's a documentary from a successful sniper... He adjusted his scope completely wrong and used the fine marks to aim... Reason? When he got killed and enemy picked up his sniper rifle they are not able to use it to kill his comrades because nobody know how to read his scope.... That's POA, Point of Aim and POI, Point of Impact... Then maybe a new word to you, groups/grouping... An accurate gun put pellets at the same spot every time when you do your part well. If the gun shoots high, 10 pellets at the same hole where 3 inches higher than the bullseye... That's a super accurate gun (maybe worth $2000~ [emoji38]) you only need to aim lower if you don't want to adjust the sights... Or, adjust the sights to align the POA to the POI... And why we say adjust the front sight flush to the bottom of the bullseye just give you the chance to see what and where you are aiming... [emoji38] Some ppl like to adjust the sights to cover the bullseye... It doesn't matter... Just follow your heart and use what you feel comfortable~ Nothing special~ not rocket science~ I get it now ... and you can stop razin about the 2000$ guns haha. I actually would encourage people to spend as much as they want / can on their passion, for sure. It's not even that much money for someone that's into competitions, or a collector frankly. These things are investments and they retain value, just like "decent" guitars. The "prosumer" if you will of the airgun world. Me .. it's just a hobby to build up coordination and to stay fit. A 500$ pistol is more than accurate for my shaky hands. Once I get my PAL, oh I'll get myself a nice air rifle for the local range.

Author:	YepYep [ Sat Sep 16, 2023 10:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
LOL~ I am a plinker and airgunning as a hobby too~ I found this is a great way to make me relaxed. You read the professional descriptions above from the nice gentleman with a long name already... He also mentioned the different type of sights you may want to encounter later... The red (of course usually you can also change to green color) dot, fiber optic inserts front and rear sight and the old school non fiber optic sights... Different things, different purposes but all very interesting to try out~ Happy shooting~

Author:	Daryl [ Sat Sep 16, 2023 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
Irate, the low aiming in target shooting is called 6 o'clock hold. That means the flat topped front blade sight is evenly spaced in the rear light's notch and is level with the rear sights flat top. The "hold" of the 2 sights thus aligned, is at the juncture of the black centre and the buff coloured outer rings, thus at the 6 o'clock position. As the 10M target never changes, the sights thus aligned, never have to be changed, unless a pellet change is made. Different pellets commonly shoot to different points of impact and thus the sights must be adjusted for them to shoot to the same location.

Author:	fishguy [ Sat Sep 16, 2023 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
I personally could never get used to the 6 o’clock hold. It’s counterintuitive for me. I just adjust all my guns to aim at the bullseye. Rare to find one that can’t be set like that. I have had to max out a few target pistols that just weren’t meant for that type of aiming but, it worked for me. Whatever gets you on target!?

Author:	iratecaller [ Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
Daryl wrote: Irate, the low aiming in target shooting is called 6 o'clock hold. That means the flat topped front blade sight is evenly spaced in the rear light's notch and is level with the rear sights flat top. The "hold" of the 2 sights thus aligned, is at the juncture of the black centre and the buff coloured outer rings, thus at the 6 o'clock position. As the 10M target never changes, the sights thus aligned, never have to be changed, unless a pellet change is made. Different pellets commonly shoot to different points of impact and thus the sights must be adjusted for them to shoot to the same location. Thanks for that. That's a very good explanation. Found the pistol shooting resources available in the forum. Fantastic repository. Can't shoot today, but still going through the motions.

Author:	iratecaller [ Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
fishguy wrote: I personally could never get used to the 6 o’clock hold. It’s counterintuitive for me. I just adjust all my guns to aim at the bullseye. Rare to find one that can’t be set like that. I have had to max out a few target pistols that just weren’t meant for that type of aiming but, it worked for me. Whatever gets you on target!? Yeah that's just it, the guy on the YouTube video was losing it that his FAS 6004 wasn't capable of being set to hit a bullseye. ... but the support department, the very people that make the gun, never thought to inform him that for 10m pistol, due to the constant distance, and making the sight picture easier (aiming at white instead of black), that it's a tradition that the POA is set lower than the POI. That's what I found so terribly odd with that. The company even sent him another gun. They told him everything was fine, but none of their conversations involved traditional 10m point of aim vs point of impact. Total breakdown in communications and next thing you know this dude is filing down his front sight. lol I'm with you, it makes more sense to shoot for the bullseye, but when in Rome right? If the pistol just can't be set to the bullseye or there's "a way of doing things", then that's just how she goes. It makes sense now, but that dude made me paranoid about my purchase.

Author:	Daryl [ Sun Sep 17, 2023 12:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
On the other hand, all the rest of my iron sight and scoped guns are sighted to hit perfect bullseye at a "given" range. I do not shoot 10M competition. If I did the pistol would be sighted properly for a 6 o'clock hold on the bull. The reason is for clarity of the sight picture.

Author:	grantmac [ Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
I guess when you buy a gun for 10m competition the manufacturer assumes you know at least a little about that competition.

Author:	iratecaller [ Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My goodness, they don't even shoot at the bullseye...
grantmac wrote: I guess when you buy a gun for 10m competition the manufacturer assumes you know at least a little about that competition. Yup, and if you find yourself wanting to file something down when the gun is fresh from the factory, just STOP, and start doing some research. LOL!

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