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 Post subject: Choosing airgun for FT
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:47 pm 
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I'm still in the market looking for an airgun for FT but I can't afford
a Steyr ..... yet. ..... lol.... if I get a Steyr then I won't be able to
afford the scope ...lol....

any suggestion ......

and the scope ....


I was thinking about QB78 .177 that I have with compress air, it's
been doing well at 880 fps consistently for over thousands of shots.
Only takes 3-4 minutes to pump @1350 psi. and good for 60 shots.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:08 pm 
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Have a look at the Air Arms S400, I have a S410 with the single shot tray for HFT and yse an Air Arms Shamal (thats been tuned up by Dave Welham at Airmasters).

There should be a pic on my 410 somewhere and I will do one of my Shamal sometime for you.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:01 am 
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I am very interested in this Thread...

Is PCP the only way to go? How do the people with springers like the HW97 do?

I have seen alot of info about caliber, not so much about the whole PCP, Co2, Springer bit.

What would be the most economical way to start? without thinking "I need better gear in order to be compettitive".


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:35 am 
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The HW 97 in .177 calibre, is the second most popular FT spring powered rifle out there. Number one is the AA Tx 200, but that can be a chore to purchase at times. With your HW 97 rifle as a competitive rifle, the next step is scope. Without being outclassed, the 30 mm Leaper's 8-32x56mm, illuminated reticule at about 250 or so, will get you good optics that can rangefind with excellent repeatability. You can have your competitive rig going for around a thousand or so and kick some serious butt. The rifle lists for 618 with the Blue Laminated stock (575 for beech but get the laminated for the extra weight), the mounts will run about 14 to 95 dollars (depending on the model but a single piece is your best option ), and the scope is about 250. So if you buy the most expensive mount and rifle model, you will be looking at just under 1100 with tax but not including shipping.

To put this in perspective, a brand new Steyr LG 110 FT goes out the door for $2672.00 plus tax and shipping. Remember, you are looking at a rig that will take you to the top of the Piston Division. There are kits that can be purchased that will set the rifle up for any level of power you desire and there are other kits that will help reduce the felt recoil of that rifle, but it is not very much. The current US Piston Champion shoots an HW 97, and pirellip finished second in the Piston Division at the Port Colborne club with his. Have fun.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:07 am 
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So for the approximate $1100 that Keyrigger mentioned, what are the other rifle/scope options (if any) that would be good choices to get into the sport of FT?
I have been interested ever since I first read about FT a few months ago, but must admit to being more than a little intimidated at getting out there and learning!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:14 am 
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Keyrigger wrote:
The HW 97 in .177 calibre, is the second most popular FT spring powered rifle out there. Number one is the AA Tx 200, but that can be a chore to purchase at times. With your HW 97 rifle as a competitive rifle, the next step is scope. Without being outclassed, the 30 mm Leaper's 8-32x56mm, illuminated reticule at about 250 or so, will get you good optics that can rangefind with excellent repeatability. You can have your competitive rig going for around a thousand or so and kick some serious butt. The rifle lists for 618 with the Blue Laminated stock (575 for beech but get the laminated for the extra weight), the mounts will run about 14 to 95 dollars (depending on the model but a single piece is your best option ), and the scope is about 250. So if you buy the most expensive mount and rifle model, you will be looking at just under 1100 with tax but not including shipping.

To put this in perspective, a brand new Steyr LG 110 FT goes out the door for $2672.00 plus tax and shipping. Remember, you are looking at a rig that will take you to the top of the Piston Division. There are kits that can be purchased that will set the rifle up for any level of power you desire and there are other kits that will help reduce the felt recoil of that rifle, but it is not very much. The current US Piston Champion shoots an HW 97, and pirellip finished second in the Piston Division at the Port Colborne club with his. Have fun.


Great!.... you just answered a question that was on my mind for sometime now.... $250 + the mounts puts this scope on my list of goodies to get....
Thanks for the info Keyrigger!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:41 am 
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Location: Mississauga, Ont.
Pumpmaster wrote:
So for the approximate $1100 that Keyrigger mentioned, what are the other rifle/scope options (if any) that would be good choices to get into the sport of FT?


For starters, any spring, air, or gas powered air gun. CAFTA is going to be introducing a new Division, "Hunter", that will encompass more shooters with less than optimum kits. The average shooter does not have a 24x plus scope on their rifle and most have less than the Leaper's scope cost's in their entire combo. In this Division, the optics are going to be limited to 15 power, the distances on the scope must be covered, but you can use any reticule you want, clicks if you desire, and you can focus the scope for a clear image. That willl allow a Quest to compete with a standard 3-9 powered scope on it. I can tell you that the limit on the power was to allow a decent scope to be used, like the Bushnell Legend, but it will not be an advantage.

You must estimate the range, to the target, the way you would when you are hunting. By eye. No separate rangefinders may be used to get the distance. Again, that is to keep the Division from being "He, who has the most toys, Wins", race. The scoring will be 2 points for a knockdown of the target, one point for a hit "ANYWHERE" on the target, and zero for a complete miss of the target. It is very likely that a shooter in this Division will have a higher score than the PCP or Piston Division winner, but you won't be de-throning the current PCP or Piston winners.

My AA S410 cost me, used (not new) around that price but the power level was far too high for the targets. That has now been addressed so it is just under 20 fpe and you will see me shooting it at the Elmira Club this year. You do not have to worry about me using that rifle in Hunter (it would be too easy, even with the scope turned down to 15 power), but it is just an example that you can find a really suitable rifle out there on the used market. So, let's see those QB's, Quest's, Diana 24's, and HW 30's out there this season. NO EXCUSES. The season starts in April.

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Last edited by Keyrigger on Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:50 am 
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Location: canada
Pumpmaster wrote:
...what are the other rifle/scope options (if any) that would be good choices to get into the sport of FT?

A Bushnell 4200 Elite 6X24 mildot served me well last year. Accurate ranging and clear optics. I just bought a 4200 Elite 8X32 duplex for my next rig. Although not inexpensive ($500.00 at LeBarons w/ discount) I find it pays dividends down the road to spend as much as you can afford for optics.
Pumpmaster wrote:
I have been interested ever since I first read about FT a few months ago, but must admit to being more than a little intimidated at getting out there and learning!

I felt the same last summer but mustered up the courage to go watch a match. I quickly found the guys had a lot more going on for them than just good looks! :lol: Also, if you didn't want to compete right away, there's usually some open shooting time before the match or a fun plinking session after where you could shoot your own stuff or try some of the different equipment.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:19 pm 
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sniper wrote:
I'm still in the market looking for an airgun for FT but I can't afford
a Steyr ..... yet. ..... lol.... if I get a Steyr then I won't be able to
afford the scope ...lol....

any suggestion ......

and the scope ....


I was thinking about QB78 .177 that I have with compress air, it's
been doing well at 880 fps consistently for over thousands of shots.
Only takes 3-4 minutes to pump @1350 psi. and good for 60 shots.


Sniper, if I were you, I'd stick with your QB78 on HPA for now, and purchase a scope. You are the best judge of how accurate it is out to 55 yards, you'll want to hit under 1". If it can shoot 1/4" like the Steyr, that would be better, but not needed.

As for a scope, well how much do you want to spend? If you want brand new, the Leapers 8-32 is your best bet (that's what I am now using)

If you want to spend more, I'd be looking on the used market from the U.S. forums. For $500-600 you can get the last scope you'll ever own, such as a Nikko Sterling 10-50 x 60 or such.

As I said, I own a Leapers 8-32 and its damn good for the money, better then scopes that cost 2x that amount a few years ago. The Bushnell Elite 8-32 is also excellent, but doesn't have a side focus (so out of the question in my opinion)

I picked up a used Leupold Competition 35x for $700 for my Steyr, and will be keeping the Leapers on my HW97k


If you really want to go for it then and get a 'high end' pcp, you'll already have your scope. There are new options out there such as the Air Arms MPR that are less then 1/2 of the Steyr, not all the bells and whistles, but just as accurate in the right person's hands. If fact, past a certain price point, all PCP are cabable of winning in the right shooters hands


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:28 pm 
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Pumpmaster wrote:
So for the approximate $1100 that Keyrigger mentioned, what are the other rifle/scope options (if any) that would be good choices to get into the sport of FT?
I have been interested ever since I first read about FT a few months ago, but must admit to being more than a little intimidated at getting out there and learning!


It really depends on if you want PCP or Piston. For piston, a HW97k or TX200 are it (although Windbag uses a Diana 54 with excellent results)

The TX200 are over $800, but don't need the 'tune' that the $600 HW97k would benefit from. I own a tweaked out HW97k, but the TX200 wasn't available at the time, else I probably would have purchased it. It it generally accepted that the HW barrels are the best (by that I mean you have the least chance of getting a 'bad' barrel)

If you want to go PCP, well there are tonnes out there, and most PCP past a certain point are as accurate as needed. They generally cost more to get shooting though - such as a $250 hand pump.

Personally, I'd be looking at the used market in the U.S. first (unless you can find something for sale here used) From what I understand, its nearly impossible for the UK shooters to send anything to us anymore (too bad, they have the best used market)

Great deals to be had, and its not that tough to have them imported - I'm in the middle of importing a Steyr LG100ZM


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:40 pm 
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Ardneh wrote:
I am very interested in this Thread...

Is PCP the only way to go? How do the people with springers like the HW97 do?

I have seen alot of info about caliber, not so much about the whole PCP, Co2, Springer bit.

What would be the most economical way to start? without thinking "I need better gear in order to be compettitive".


PCP and Piston (springers) are two different divisions, while we shoot together, we don't compete. Generally the top PCP will score higher then the top Piston (perhaps one day I'll beat out Keyrigger...)

from a $ perspective, for about $1100, you can have the 'best' in the Piston division, tuned HW97 or a TX200 with a Leapers 8-32x or Busnell 8-32x. With PCP, its several times higher then that.

Generally CO2 isn't used because of the temperature sensitivity - but don't let that stop you from coming if you shoot a QB78!

If you want to score the highest possible, a PCP is the way to go - as I've said before, past a certain price point, a PCP costing 1/2 that of a Steyr could still win. But someone who spends thousands on their rig probably also invests lots of time learning to shoot it well, so that's why they normally win.

The good thing about a piston rifle is, you can't expect to shoot a perfect score, so there is a bit of a relief there (sometimes even if you do everything right, you still miss) a 50/60 is EXCELLENT, where as a 59/60 in PCP would be the equivalent in my opinion.

Another good thing about Piston is its simplicity. You only need your rifle and pellets, no pumps, scuba, etc.

I started out in Piston, and just got a nice PCP rig. My plan is to shoot Piston in Elmira, and PCP in Port Colborne.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:07 pm 
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pirellip wrote:
Sniper, if I were you, I'd stick with your QB78 on HPA for now, and purchase a scope. You are the best judge of how accurate it is out to 55 yards, you'll want to hit under 1". If it can shoot 1/4" like the Steyr, that would be better, but not needed.


Sounds good, I will pursue that for now ..... thx.
I wasn't so sure before. If my HW100T was .177, it would've been nice.
If the QB does well at 55 yards as you were saying perhaps it'll have
a chance. I know so far does really good at 32 yards. Perhaps it needs
a little bit more modification to it such as FT stock, two set screws on
the receiver to barrel, metal barrel band, shorter ext. tube and muzzle
brake, for sure a better valve stem seal, then trigger works .....
now I just have to find time to do it .... lol....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:46 pm 
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I've heard of ppl getting great groups with their QB78s so depending on your 32 yard groups I'd go for it. If you can get sub 1/2 (3/8 would be better) I'd say go for it - a lot cheaper then a new rig.

Are you using heavy .177 pellets? Ideally you want to right around 900 fps.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:23 pm 
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Ok, I know squat about FT, but why dont you use one of your B51??? Would this not be a better choice over the qb78?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:49 pm 
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notec wrote:
Ok, I know squat about FT, but why dont you use one of your B51??? Would this not be a better choice over the qb78?


good point, I know Canshooter was using one (a heavily modified one albeit) for awhile..


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