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 Post subject: Some sound scope tips
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:27 am 
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I am always on the lookout for scopes that might be usable for FT and every so often, I find either a new scope, or new-to-me model of scope that might work. The biggest drawback is the minimum focus distance of the scopes AO or sidewheel, and what looks like a very reasonable cost scope, turns out to be a dud as it might only focuse to a minimum of 25 yards. Even those that focus down to 12 to 15 yards seem to the untrained individual to be suitable, as the salesmen say that you can zoom out and bring the closer targets in focus.

That is very true, but the worst information you can be given.

The entire premise of Field Target is to be able to look through your scope, focus on the target, and get the distance to the target from the marks on the scope AO ring or sidewheel. From that information, you either adjust the elevation turret, use the mildot reticule, or use old fashioned Kentucky windage (elevation in this case) to bring your pellet on target. Field Target is shot at all points from 10 yards to 55 yards, and no target is ever placed at a specific distance or on an exact yard, rather they are placed randomly within those two points from the shooting position. If you cannot get the distance from the scope, you are not going to be able to get an accurate reading for your setting of the scope, and the chances are that you are going to miss.

That's traditional FT.

Now, (to borrow a line) "Here's Hunter"

Remember what I just wrote about getting the distance from the marks on the scope AO ring or sidewheel? They all go out the door in Hunter. Gee, Thanks, right? Not so fast. In Hunter, you must cover the distance marks on your scope or sidewheel and may not use that direct information to set your scope to. You may use clicks, any reticule, or Kentucky windage to take out the target, but you may not get the distance from either the scope or rangefinders. However, what is still extremely important is to be able to focus on that target with your scope. When you are looking for a scope to use, asking someone that already shoots FT will save you a lot of looking at unnecessary scopes to find one that you can use right out of the box.

If you can get a scope that can focus closer than 10 yards, that is even better, as in Europe, they engage targets as close as 8 yards!! My main competition scope can actually focus to 7 yards, so I have a cushion with that scope that most do not. I see a number of people starting to squirm after finding out that the World Championships in Ireland will most likely have targets placed somewhere between 8 and 10 yards for their close point and even though there is really only a tiny bit of difference that your clicks will make, it is the faith that you must place when aiming at a hole that is out of focus and that might be just a tad bigger than your pellet. They can use KZ's as small as 6mm, so your aim error is very, very small.

I have found a number of scopes in the past that look like they are up to the task. A couple that I thought were suitable, turned out to be setup for long distance shots only, and the minimum focus was 75 yards, sheesh. I just found another one to look at by Weaver, but it is going to take either a run to a store that might have it in stock, or a request for information from the manufacturer. What drives me around the bend is that they all are so quick to tell you the zoom ratio, objective size, exit pupil, and all other important measurements, but you just try and find the minimum focus on a vast majority of AO or side focus scopes. They don't tell you, as they presume you are all shooting .223 Rem. or .338 Lapua, so the doubt that you would have the slightest interest that their scope might focus down to 5 yards (yes, some get that close).

How wrong can they get. I have two scopes that only make it to 11 yards and one is going to be used in competion this year, but I am not sweating this one. If it is out of focus, I will zoom out a bit, adjust for 10, and let the target have it, lol. My big heavy .22 should just bowl the target over, lol. What we can all try and do is show you a number of scopes that we know work and try and keep you from buying scopes that will be either replaced in short order because of breakage, or because they will not work reliably enough for the rigors of FT.

When one of the most prestigious manufacturers in the world comes to top FT shooters and has them look at their scopes to see what they think of them, you know we are a picky bunch of shooters. In fact, we are described as being the most difficult group of shooters to please as our scopes must be able to snap in and out of focus at any distance out to 55 or so yards. It is the hardest task to ask of a scope you could ever imagine and when it takes a four thousand dollar scope to finally accomplish that task to the best possible degree, you know we are tough on our requirements (or completely out of our minds).

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:06 pm 
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Location: canada
Keyrigger wrote:
My big heavy .22 should just bowl the target over

Seriously?! :shock: I'm gonna have a new playmate in the sandbox?! :D Does that mean there's gonna be a Steyr listed in the for sale section? 8)
Keyrigger wrote:
...you know we are tough on our requirements (or completely out of our minds).

Yes to the first part, no to the second part! We are the normal ones, everyone else is insane...until they catch the bug too! :twisted:

I believe we have interesting times ahead of us in the world of scopes. With some manufacturers already making product features with adult airgunners in mind, I think this situation will only get better.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:57 pm 
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This is truly an awesome thread/post. I think this is very valuable information. I would like to thank you and to please keep them coming!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:07 pm 
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Location: home of the Marshville Festival, Ontario, Canada
windbag wrote:
Does that mean there's gonna be a Steyr listed in the for sale section? 8)

I seriously doubt it. The Steyr is his main "sqeeze", the S410E is his "concubine". :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:34 pm 
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Might I suggest this thread is worthy of a "Sticky".... especially if expanded to include the requirements for the Hunter Class....

Bob

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:53 pm 
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It will be worthy of a sticky when I have finished the rest of the first post. I am putting together a list of scopes that have stood the test of Springer's and PCP's and I am fairly sure of what scopes are suited to the style of rifle they are put on. I should be able to list all scopes, even the ones that are out of production, as even those will hit the used market from time to time. I will make this a sticky now, and then add it later tonight, or as soon as I can finish the list. Trust me, it is going to be very large and the saying goes, if it isn't on that list, don't put it on a springer unless it is listed as high powered springer compatable. If a scope does not focus to 10 yards, but maybe 11, I will include it, as some of them have great features and good prices.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:09 pm 
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Location: home of the Marshville Festival, Ontario, Canada
Keyrigger wrote:
It will be worthy of a sticky when I have finished the rest of the first post. I am putting together a list of scopes that have stood the test of Springer's and PCP's and I am fairly sure of what scopes are suited to the style of rifle they are put on. I should be able to list all scopes, even the ones that are out of production, as even those will hit the used market from time to time. I will make this a sticky now, and then add it later tonight, or as soon as I can finish the list. Trust me, it is going to be very large and the saying goes, if it isn't on that list, don't put it on a springer unless it is listed as high powered springer compatable. If a scope does not focus to 10 yards, but maybe 11, I will include it, as some of them have great features and good prices.

I'd suggest that possibly you could take your original post, and then any subsequent additions to that post by you, sticky and lock it. That way the informational post will have no "banter" within it to detract from the information within that post.
I don't think that any of the folks currently posted in this thread would take offense to being edited out in the interest of informational continuity.
Your "scope tips" sounds like a very helpful, and worthwhile endeavour - thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:22 pm 
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Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
The boys from Northern Ireland given in and accepted using targets with only 25mm or 40mm kill zones, but that will not stop us from using the small holes over here. A .25" KZ from 10-15 yards usually gets your undivided attention. Knowing the distance and seeing very clearly are of utmost importance. You can see it fine with a 9X scope, but I wonder if you would be able to see into the kill zone and pick a small aim point on the paddle behind the face. Most field target shooters do not aim at the kill zone, they aim at a small spot within it.

I would be willing to write short reviews on some of the scopes I have that are great, to medium, to marginal for FT use. This thread could become very useful for people wanting to get scopes that suit their purpose and their budget.

Tim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:45 pm 
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Suprmatic wrote:
Keyrigger wrote:
It will be worthy of a sticky when I have finished the rest of the first post. I am putting together a list of scopes that have stood the test of Springer's and PCP's and I am fairly sure of what scopes are suited to the style of rifle they are put on. I should be able to list all scopes, even the ones that are out of production, as even those will hit the used market from time to time. I will make this a sticky now, and then add it later tonight, or as soon as I can finish the list. Trust me, it is going to be very large and the saying goes, if it isn't on that list, don't put it on a springer unless it is listed as high powered springer compatable. If a scope does not focus to 10 yards, but maybe 11, I will include it, as some of them have great features and good prices.

I'd suggest that possibly you could take your original post, and then any subsequent additions to that post by you, sticky and lock it. That way the informational post will have no "banter" within it to detract from the information within that post.
I don't think that any of the folks currently posted in this thread would take offense to being edited out in the interest of informational continuity.
Your "scope tips" sounds like a very helpful, and worthwhile endeavour - thanks!

I'll second that!...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:35 pm 
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This is exactly the type of information I have been hoping for as I consider buying my first FT gear. Thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:44 pm 
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This is BIG, I am going to create a new thread, make the addition to it, and then sticky and lock it. The information has never been put together before in one place, so if you are thinking about buying a scope for FT, wait until I get this posted.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:07 pm 
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Keyrigger wrote:
This is BIG, I am going to create a new thread, make the addition to it, and then sticky and lock it. The information has never been put together before in one place, so if you are thinking about buying a scope for FT, wait until I get this posted.

Sounds GREAT!.....
It'll give some of us more time to save a few extra dollars for something more suitable for the sport..... 8) 8) 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:36 am 
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Mac:

If a suitable for FT scope is not on the list I have posted in the sticky, please email me the make, model, and reticule specs and I can add it to the list that is there, now. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:34 am 
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windbag wrote:
I believe we have interesting times ahead of us in the world of scopes.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen or heard any details on the new line of Bushnell 6500 Elite scopes due out in March? Apparently 30mm tubes and side focus but not sure if they can dial down to a true 10 yards or not?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:21 am 
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Location: South River Ontario
Windbag, I found this post over on opticstalk.com......

Quote:
They look nice cosmetically. Fast focus ocular is nice as is the side focus parallax. The side parallax adjustment for the 2.5-16's is 10 yards to infinity and 25 yards to infinity on the 4.5-30. They also boast 80-100 MOA of elevation adjustment.


The rest of the topic can be found here:

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8948


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