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 Post subject: Acceptable target types?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:37 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Hello all,
I am in the process of gathering targets for some field target courses and was wondering if all targets have to be the fall down type? I have some steel plate that I was going to cut up and weld to a staking rod. Push them in the ground, shoot at X distance and get a point if you hit the steel. They should make a sound loud enough to identify a hit or a miss.Is this acceptable kit for field target?
Thanks
Greg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:45 pm 
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The whole idea of field targets is that they have a circular kill zone (or KZ) through which the pellets have to travel to strike a paddle.... Once the paddle is struck, then the whole target falls over.... The KZ is between 1/4" and 1 1/2" diameter, depending on skill level, distance to the target, and difficulty of the course....

In the Hunter class, one point is awarded for hitting the face of the target.... and two points for knocking the target over by hitting within the KZ.... my understanding is that in the other classes, hitting the KZ is required to score any points....

The type of target you suggest would have a much larger target area.... unless you made the targets smaller than 1 1/2".... :D

Bob

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:52 pm 
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Threemorewishes wrote:
Hello all,
I am in the process of gathering targets for some field target courses and was wondering if all targets have to be the fall down type? I have some steel plate that I was going to cut up and weld to a staking rod. Push them in the ground, shoot at X distance and get a point if you hit the steel. They should make a sound loud enough to identify a hit or a miss.Is this acceptable kit for field target?
Thanks
Greg


According To The Shoot Rules:

5) Targets
A) Silhouette, fall when hit targets, re-settable from the firing point will be used. Silhouettes are generally of a typical air gun quarry, but geometric designs may also be used.

B) Targets should not be closer than 10 yards, nor should they be further away than 55 yards, from the firing point.

C) The Match Director should insure that all shooting lanes and physical limits of the firing points are clearly defined.

D) A clear and unobstructed view of the hit zone must be afforded to all competitors from the shooting position for that target.

E) Shooters may reset their own targets once the scorer gives them permission.

You can use your idea for practice, but at actual matches the targets need to be able to fall and be reset with a string.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:13 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, Ont.
I guess this will meet the requirements. Obviously not ideal, but an easy setup with 4 targets in one lane.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:03 pm 
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Location: Mississauga, Ont.
Unfortunately, those are Silhouette targets and not FT targets. It is a very simple matter of finding the Gamo Target at D&L or SSS or BassPro Shops to see what the target is all about. I simple fall-down target is not what our sport is based on. Have a look at the After Hours Target and Pounded Paddle Target websites for more examples of what FT targets are supposed to be. On British sites, you will also see Knock-Over Target as one of their manufacturers that has been around since near the very beginning of FT. Please don't jump to conclusions about what is allowed just because it might fall over when hit.

At a fun match, you can shoot at what ever you want, but if it is to be an FT match, then the targets must meet the general requirements stated. If you really want us to write every last detail as you feel it is a loophole that allows you to do what every you wish, we can do that too, but would rather a simple lookup on the web of these targets to see what are acceptable.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:12 pm 
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Quote:
5) Targets
A) Silhouette, fall when hit targets, re-settable from the firing point will be used. Silhouettes are generally of a typical air gun quarry, but geometric designs may also be used.


Tsk, tsk. Someone will challenge these rules... I get the point, but eventually someone will contest something based on the language. Not saying this to be a pain in the buttock or anything.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:21 pm 
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Location: Pickering, Ont.
^ A simple addition to the allowed target description could be "must have a circular kill zone" or "must have a paddle behind the target silhouette" etc. to eliminate standard silhouette targets.

I'm not sure who would complain though, as presumably the people setting up the range would know what's proper, and whatever they set up everybody gets to shoot at, so if the targets aren't quite kosher it's not like anybody's getting hurt in the match score. Improper target styles wouldn't make it much of a training ground though.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:23 pm 
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I would have to agree with lh.... If it is the intention to have KZs that must be penetrated and of given sizes within certain yardage catagories.... perhaps that should be specified in the rules.... :wink:

The "old hands" may understand what is meant.... but it is not clear to the rest of us.... I can now understand the reason for the original question in this thread.... :)

Bob

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Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:52 pm 
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rsterne wrote:
I would have to agree with lh.... If it is the intention to have KZs that must be penetrated and of given sizes within certain yardage catagories.... perhaps that should be specified in the rules.... :wink:

The "old hands" may understand what is meant.... but it is not clear to the rest of us.... I can now understand the reason for the original question in this thread.... :)

Bob


The 6 men that make up the CAFTA board of governors just recently concluded the writing of the new shoot rules. The Target section was really one that we passed over (for the most part). This rewrite spent more time introducing two new classes (Hunter/Limited), and what new or updated equipment rules would be necessary. The wording of the target section of our rules reads nearly identical to that of the US FT rules (AAFTA). I am not aware that this question has ever come up in the US. Their rules have been tried and tested to a larger extent then ours, and have held firm.

For we Field Target shooters, what defines a FT target is elementary. No FT shooter would question something of such a fundamental nature. We have seen the consistency of target design from our first investigation into the sport, and first hand since our inaugural match.

What we have here are 4 people who have new found interest in a sport that they know little about, combined with no practical experience. That is not a bad thing. In fact, new interest is exactly what we need. Question and critique should alway be welcomed when it comes from genuine interest and honest intentions.

From a grammatical standpoint, I see the issue you bring up. From a realistic approach, the match director will govern the application of the rules and no silhouette target like was pictured above would be allowed as an offical match target.

I am of the disposition that if a misunderstanding can be avoided, now or in the future, by a simple change in wording, I would prefer that approach. I have contacted two of the other board member (Chairman and Secretary) via. email tonight asking them if they thought a revision to the wording would be expedient in this case. As stated, the US has essentially the same language, without problem, but the British rules do describe the targets in a more descriptive fashion. Whatever decision is made will be made clear in the near future. In the meantime, take the time to investigate the type of target the thousands of FT shooters around the world are using. And remember, they are all using the same mechanical concept. The design will not likely be changed anytime is the foreseeable future.
- http://fieldtargets.com/id23.htm
- http://www.nockover-targets.co.uk/cordless_targets.html (note the word "practice" under some designs - not offical match targets)
- http://poundedpaddletargets.com/Glossary.htm

Sincerely,
CJN (vice-Chairman CAFTA)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:56 pm 
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rsterne wrote:
and of given sizes within certain yardage catagories.... perhaps that should be specified in the rules.... :wink:

Bob


Kill zone sizes within a certain yardage is not in the discussion here. No core rules address that. It is at a match directors discretion.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:05 am 
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Threemorewishes wrote:
Hello all,
I am in the process of gathering targets for some field target courses and was wondering if all targets have to be the fall down type? I have some steel plate that I was going to cut up and weld to a staking rod. Push them in the ground, shoot at X distance and get a point if you hit the steel. They should make a sound loud enough to identify a hit or a miss.Is this acceptable kit for field target?
Thanks
Greg


If I take a moment and see the target issue through your eyes, buying a course full of targets may seem like a dim prospect at this point. With the cost of targets ranging from $30-60+, a whole course of targets bought by one individual is a boat load of money. Currently we use 30 targets per match, two shots per target, for a 60 shot match (although 60 shots matches are not mandatory). Also, we usually gather targets from 2-4 individuals, lightening the load some.

Another option is to build your own FT targets. Below I will give you a link that will take you through a step by step process on how to build your own targets. They will keep with the traditional "fall when hit/circular hole in the silhouette/pellet pass through hole for target to fall" Field Target design.

This option can be a great learning experience, as well as a dramatic financial savings. Others have tried different designs, but the same principle. If I can find more tutorial links, I will post them.

While you are at this site, take the time to read all the sections. Doing so will allow you to learn the sport of Field Target much quicker. It is a great read. This is one of the best overall explanations of Field Target I have seen. Remember is is written by an American FT shooter, thus the references to the AAFTA, and not to the CAFTA.

http://www.airguns.net/ft.php

Hope this helps.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:11 am 
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Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
There are a number of issues here that Chris has addressed very well. I'll try to give my take on this and add some alternative ideas.

One issue is the field target, which by definition, has a round killzone with a paddle behind it that will cause the target to fall when hit with sufficient force, therefore, we found no need to define it further in our rules. The rules are a lot longer than we had hoped already, so we do not want to start defining items that have a definition already universally accepted in the FT community.

Secondly, for a club to be a member of CAFTA, only one match per year has to be held using the rules of CAFTA. Because of this, Greg could set up his first matches with whatever targets he has on hand. The silhouette targets, field targets, spinners, etc. could all be used. It would still be fun and get people use to the idea of shooting lanes, two shots per target, shooting in a group and experience the pressure of keeping score. Many clubs that exist now had their start with exactly these kinds of courses.

Thirdly, if a group decides they want to be a member club in CAFTA, they would need to hold only one match per season using field targets and following the Shooting Rules set out by CAFTA. It would not have to be a long match. If there were 10 field targets available, a 30 shot match could be held by taking three shots per target instead of the standard two shots per target. This would still conform to the rules.

Lastly, when we answer you questions, we are not challenging anyone, we are trying to provide information about FT as it exists in Canada and the rest of the world. I know there are going to be questions along the lines of the one that started this thread. The CAFTA Governors and other FT shooter on this forum, look forward to answering all the questions that come our way about the sport. We will not react in a negative or condescending way to any question with regards to providing information about the game we are so passionate about.

I hope this forum can continue to be a source for information about FT and a place to come to discuss any ideas pertaining to the sport. It will also be the place to find out what is happening in the FT community in Canada, such as where and when matches will be held and also will provide results and pictures from those events. There are too few of us to argue and create bad feelings. I look forward to many discussion, even those that will come with varied opinions and probably some disagreement. We do have a common goal however and I hope that we will all bear that in mind during our discussions.

Tim

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:18 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
All good info...thanks. I will use the "make your own" tutorial to cobble some together for the upcoming season. As stated above my first setup will probably include a few target styles that are not official. As this is the first breaths of FT for me I am sure my FT inventory will evolve over time.

Stay tuned for the invite to our fledgling FT event....life is good.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:29 pm 
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Threemorewishes wrote:
All good info...thanks. I will use the "make your own" tutorial to cobble some together for the upcoming season. As stated above my first setup will probably include a few target styles that are not official. As this is the first breaths of FT for me I am sure my FT inventory will evolve over time.

Stay tuned for the invite to our fledgling FT event....life is good.


I'm real happy to hear of your intentions. Good luck! If we can be of any help, just ask (or PM).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:13 pm 
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lh wrote:
Quote:
5) Targets
A) Silhouette, fall when hit targets, re-settable from the firing point will be used. Silhouettes are generally of a typical air gun quarry, but geometric designs may also be used.


Tsk, tsk. Someone will challenge these rules... I get the point, but eventually someone will contest something based on the language. Not saying this to be a pain in the buttock or anything.


For you who were questioning what constituted an offical Field Target in the earlier replies of this post, please take note.

As I stated above, I spoke with the other governors and we decided to improve the wording of the target section in the CAFTA Shooting Rules.

Take a moment to see the changes.

We appreciate your questions and comments. Your question prompted a change in wording that had previously passed the test of time and temperaments of the American Airgun Field Target Association. I personally favor this new wording. It does a much better job describing the actual Field Target.

Please feel free to ask questions in the future. As you can see, we are quite reasonable, and are listening to what you have to say. We give no guarantee that if someone brings up another subject in the future we will make changes or corrections to our rules, but do know that if we think it is warranted, we will happily do so.

Take care.
CJN

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