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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:26 am
Posts: 238
Here is an open-minded forum .........................................???????????????????????????
So I Should shut-UP . NOW, after that dissertation????
I TOOK PICTURES AS WE SHOT THE MATCH... .... ...So What?
NOW, after my effort, they are DIS-ALLOWED all of a sudden?
Yeah, POST YOUR PICS ......HERE .......?
The proof is often in the puddin" .......

SCORES should NOT be AFFECTED by questionable TARGETS as far as anything goes.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:12 am 
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Posts: 2099
Location: Southern Ontario
POWDERKEG, I think you're taking things wrong. To sum it up - everybody loves the pics and vids, but let's not get into questioning targets after the match is complete. We would be going in a direction with only negative results for the sport we all love.
Like canshooter said, it all evens out in the end anyways. :drinkers:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2102
Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
I'mPOWDERKEG wrote:
Here is an open-minded forum .........................................???????????????????????????
So I Should shut-UP . NOW, after that dissertation????
I TOOK PICTURES AS WE SHOT THE MATCH... .... ...So What?
NOW, after my effort, they are DIS-ALLOWED all of a sudden?
Yeah, POST YOUR PICS ......HERE .......?
The proof is often in the puddin" .......

SCORES should NOT be AFFECTED by questionable TARGETS as far as anything goes.


This seems a little bitter and not at all like you. I did not say not to take or post pictures. Nothing was disallowed. I did not say to shut up. I was concerned about the effect of questioning after the fact. I planned to discuss this personally with you at the match on the 3rd. Here we are on a public forum again.

At a match, if there is evidence of a faulty target, it is pulled from the match and that does affect scores. We have a pretty good method of checking protested targets that has worked for the 15 or so years FT has been taking place in Canada, even before my time in the sport. Is it perfect? Probably not. What is?

If the purpose of video is to go over them after the match and publicly point out problems, I have to wonder how that is going to benefit the sport we all enjoy so much. I am sure that was not your intent. If in the process of editing a video a faulty target is spotted, a heads up to the match directors, who would then contact the target owner may be a more productive use of the video. The target owner would then work on the target until it functions within the specified parameters. I know for a fact that the rat has already been worked on and adjusted. This would ultimately improve the targets and lead to fewer malfunctions, which I think all in the sport would benefit from.

So I guess the choice goes to those who post pictures and video. Is the idea to look for and point out the faults and problems or is it for enjoyment and maybe at times, point out to the organizers something that you may have spotted so the sport can be improved? Simple really. As a person who has worked for 10 years to find ways to spread the good word of FT across Canada and develop a Canadian association to promote the sport, things that may possibly counteract the promotion of FT seem to jump out at me.

Rob, I know you love the sport and the match experience. Your pictures and videos are one of the great contributions you make to the sport of FT. I have full confidence that you will continue to work/play at things that will enhance the sport even more. I am truly sorry if I offended you in any way and a hope you will continue to contribute to the sport of FT.

Tim

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:51 pm 
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Location: On, CA
backyard blaster wrote:
was it just me or were there a lot of QB variation guns there?


That day , there were only 8 QB's ..... :D


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:16 pm 
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IF A TARGET ACTUALLY DOES DROP -----WITH a FACEPLATE SHOT ------- , or WON'T --- WITH A PADDLE_HIT then i don't care WHO you are, --IT IS JUST UNFAIR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:54 pm 
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Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
We try as hard as we can to be as fair as humanly possible. We will never get it perfect as we are limited by a mechanical target that can malfunction and by the possibility of human error. That is just the way it is.

Funny how some can still enjoy the sport in spite of this.

I am always open to constructive ideas on how to take more of the error possibility out of the game.

Tim

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:58 am 
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Location: Southern Ontario
I'mPOWDERKEG wrote:
IF A TARGET ACTUALLY DOES DROP -----WITH a FACEPLATE SHOT ------- , or WON'T --- WITH A PADDLE_HIT then i don't care WHO you are, --IT IS JUST UNFAIR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is unfair is your response. There is a group of guys who work so hard to put these matches together for us, and even after very calm, rational explanations to your questions you respond on a public forum with the equivalent of a temper tantrum.
There is absolutely no way to make all of these targets function perfectly all of the time. Have I had moments where I felt I hit the paddle cleanly and it didn't drop? Sure I have. But I discussed it calmly during the match before awards were handed out. Once the match is over, it's over. Going to the "instant replay" is detrimental to the sport, and quite frankly petty.
Look at the title you created for this topic..."AIRGUN FUN"...let's keep it that way. JMO.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:58 am 
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Location: home of the Marshville Festival, Ontario, Canada
I'mPOWDERKEG wrote:
IF A TARGET ACTUALLY DOES DROP -----WITH a FACEPLATE SHOT ------- , or WON'T --- WITH A PADDLE_HIT then i don't care WHO you are, --IT IS JUST UNFAIR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rob, from the point of view of someone who has been shooting these matches for 3 seasons now, with a rifle that is generally considered "underpowered" for FT, at only 8.5 FPE, I can honestly say that the folks involved with setting up the courses have bent over backwards to ensure that the targets are properly set up to the best degree humanly possible.

When I first started using my FWB 300S in 2007, there were quite a few targets every match that would not go down with direct paddle hits, so CAFTA reviewed the situation, and decided on a minimum FPE that would cause the target to fall, which is 5 FPE. Thereafter, any targets that were questioned, were checked by the MDs before the scores were tallied, to ensure that these targets were within specs, and points awarded if the target was found to be set incorrectly for the minimum FPE. Sure, it took time to get all the kinks worked out for each and every target, but now, on my 3rd season using the FWB 300S, a target that fails to drop with a direct paddle hit is the exception, rather than the norm. At 55 yards, a pellet fired from my FWB 300S retains only 4.9 FPE, yet I have not had a single target malfunction at that range this season.

In the past, I too have raised issue about different concerns that I had with FT, and had become frustrated when it seemed that my concerns were not being addressed as quickly as I would have liked - but - after giving my own head a shake, I realized that the CAFTA governors, as well as the match directors, are after all, only human - they have lives outside of the sport - and they are doing all of this work for our enjoyment, on a voluntary basis. They are doing the best job possible with the resources available to them, and IMO, we are very lucky to have such a great group of enthusiasts promoting the sport here in Canada.

I'm afraid that no one can control "Murphy's Law" insisting upon putting in an appearance at just about every match, so we just have to learn to deal with it as best we can.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:46 pm 
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Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
Great Post Supr

Thank you. I know you were usually on the short end since at that power you did not get many that fell with a face hit. :lol:

Tim

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:52 pm 
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Posts: 2099
Location: Southern Ontario
Well said Supr. I don't have a lot of time to shoot. I consider myself lucky that there is a group of guys who set up (and take down) an entire FT course for me to shoot once a month. I hate to see their efforts diminished in any way on these forums. I understand we hand out awards, but that's not really the reason we're there right? The possibility of a malfunctioning target is just part of the game. Until I have a target malfunction on the last shot of a perfect match I'm not going to lose any sleep over it :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:30 am 
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Location: Mississauga On. Ca.
great response supr...you get my vote for the cy young award :P

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Airgunning is my hobby... and it is cheaper than
maintaining an outside relationship with another woman.
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 Post subject: Re: Faulty Target
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Posts: 1726
Location: canada
windbag wrote:
Whomever owns the rat target that gets knocked over at 2:23 in the video, check your target...it clearly went over with a face hit!

I want to apologize for this post. It was not my intention to start all this! :( Fresh bagels and coffee are on me the next time I come out!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:58 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2102
Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
"Fresh bagels and coffee are on me the next time I come out!"

Diabolical plot to get us all to drink coffee and have full stomachs. :twisted: :wink:

I just hope you can make it to the next couple of matches and that would be great.

Tim

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:26 am
Posts: 238
CJN was kind enough through this past week to send me a PM expressing his concern as to whether or not I would be discouraged from coming out saturday for the fun.
NO WAY ......
That then lead to the FACT that a post I tried to make @ 4-5 days ago was not present on this thread. I can't believe I didn't submit it, I must have hit PREVIEW instead.
I have VERY limited time for posting lately, & don't Claim to be perfect, but was sure I submitted that post several days ago, having taken all the moments I have to spare just to TYPE it !!!
My BAD again, I guess.
The GIST of the message was this, (more or less)

It was NEVER my intention to Question POINTS at the end of the day; it was merely a combo of several mistakes I made in posting my vid, which included a couple of questionable target hits. The snake clip- I even debated including, ( Should have HEARD the voice of reason there,) but must have felt that the paddle-hit should have been enough to drop it on THAT shooter's hit.
I have since learned that the "design" of THAT particular target will LOCK-UP sincerely enough with a faceplate hit to stop " AN UNIDENTIFIED QUANTITY " of lead - to NOT take it down, so; - as TESTED by low-end- powered PISTOL, prior to every Match, as USUAL;- it is perfectly good for use as a Field Target for competition.
I was happy with my faceplate points on that one myself, cuz those narrow targets are easy to miss if Left, or Right.
Still, I realize that pointing it out by my Title- was wrong on my part, as I was SURE to offend the owner/builder; and really should have taken this into consideration MORE while editing my VID.
MY BAD #2 now, - I TOTALLY missed the other shot while editing & SHOULD have caught it. - ouch!
MY BAD #3 - I responded badly to Tim's Post which was meant to clarify salient points of the stringent regulations pertaining to targets for competition that even a newby like ME is AWARE of, & I know that he did so - NOT for the benefit of the already Initiated, but for any newcomers who may raise concerns.
SO ... Let THIS be a positive experience for all concerned.

...Go over your raw footage carefully to avoid inadvertently offending SOMEBODY.

I responded to Tim's reply badly based on what I felt was a censorship issue on this Forum, but KNOW that his response is always worth paying attention to; so I know there is no loss between us. After all, EVERYTHING totally IS tested regularly, &/or removed DURING a match if suddenly must needs be.

This Sat. I will probably leave the vid-cam behind in favor of a better score with my QB ..... Last Match before the FUDD !!!!

Have FUN- KEEP SHOOTIN' - Powderkeg


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