Canadian Airgun Forum

The #1 Community for Airguns in Canada!
It is currently Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:57 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


The Canadian Airgun Forums are a place for people to discuss and learn about airguns and the airgunning sport in Canada. There are lots of discussions about airguns, airgun accessories, reviews, modification and repair information, airgun events, field target and free classifieds!

 

You need to register before you can post: click the register link to proceed. Before you register, please read the forum rules. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own pictures, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free! To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.






Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 5:42 pm
Posts: 648
Location: Ontario
jgoodz420 wrote:
Pumpmaster wrote:
For FT I would recommend an S400. With an S410 you'll need to get yourself a single shot adapter then load from the left side of the receiver. This can be annoying (or impossible) with a large sidewheel on your scope.
JMO...btw I have owned and shot FT with both an S410 and an S400 (I kept the S400).



Sorry, but I don't exactly understand what you mean about needing a single shot adapter? Or do you mean just in regards to my side-wheel being in the 10-shot clips way??


IF you are to get a scope with a side wheel focus like a Leapers and add a big wheel... it will not turn because the 10 shot clip is in the way.

The aluminum wheel can be modded to fix that problem. But if you shoot in the hunter div then max power is 16x IIRC and the focus wheel is not as accurate at ranging compared to setting it at 32x (I have the Leapers 8-32x with side wheel focus).

_________________
Air Arms S510 Carbine FAC .22cal
Air Arms S510 Carbine FAC .117cal


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:42 am
Posts: 4080
Location: Somewhere In Time
RC wrote:
jgoodz420 wrote:
Pumpmaster wrote:
For FT I would recommend an S400. With an S410 you'll need to get yourself a single shot adapter then load from the left side of the receiver. This can be annoying (or impossible) with a large sidewheel on your scope.
JMO...btw I have owned and shot FT with both an S410 and an S400 (I kept the S400).



Sorry, but I don't exactly understand what you mean about needing a single shot adapter? Or do you mean just in regards to my side-wheel being in the 10-shot clips way??


IF you are to get a scope with a side wheel focus like a Leapers and add a big wheel... it will not turn because the 10 shot clip is in the way.

The aluminum wheel can be modded to fix that problem. But if you shoot in the hunter div then max power is 16x IIRC and the focus wheel is not as accurate at ranging compared to setting it at 32x (I have the Leapers 8-32x with side wheel focus).



Okay, I get you.....
Where would one buy one of these single shot adapters?

_________________
"Are you guys silly? I'm still gonna send it..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 8936
Location: Coalmont BC
The AA S400 MPR FT .177 CAL is the 12 FPE English version.... I have no idea if you can get it in a 20 FPE version or if it can be modified.... :roll:

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:42 am
Posts: 4080
Location: Somewhere In Time
rsterne wrote:
The AA S400 MPR FT .177 CAL is the 12 FPE English version.... I have no idea if you can get it in a 20 FPE version or if it can be modified.... :roll:

Bob



Oh Okay, that makes a whole lot more sense. I was thinking 800fps was a weird velocity for it, doesn't look to have adjustable power either. I don't know I think I'm leaning to the S410, do you have any AA guns? anything worth mentioning in regards to the S410 and its short comings, if there are any :lol: fussy with pellet selection???

-Joel.G

_________________
"Are you guys silly? I'm still gonna send it..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:57 pm 
Offline
Site sponsor and moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:38 pm
Posts: 5335
Location: Southern Ontario
You just missed that combo deal Keyrigger had for sale...
Same gun he used at the last match... Some lucky fellow has got himself a sweet AA shooter....

Good luck with whatever you decide to go with jgoodz420... 8)

_________________
    Shoot Safely, Shoot Often & Share Your Sport!...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:42 am
Posts: 4080
Location: Somewhere In Time
Parker_101_ wrote:
You just missed that combo deal Keyrigger had for sale...
Same gun he used at the last match... Some lucky fellow has got himself a sweet AA shooter....

Good luck with whatever you decide to go with jgoodz420... 8)



:cry: that sucks.....Maybe someone else has one kicking around, I might just get a new one, have the warranty and what not. Thanks Parker.....

PS- Your spinners are great quality, best $10 I have spent in a while. I've also heard of some fool shooting them with a Condor & 32.4gr Eunjin's from 15ft and they are taking it just fine......Wait a minute, that was me.... :lol: :lol:

_________________
"Are you guys silly? I'm still gonna send it..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2102
Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
Pumpmaster and I have the same gun. It is an S400-SL. It is a single shot gun, side lever mechanism and adjustable power from about 7 or 8 ft/lb up to over 20 ft/lb in .177. Other than my ld/SS, it is the gun I use for serious FT. I am not using a harness now, so the S400 is my main gun. I have an MPR and a 410 Carbine and all of them are accurate enough for FT. The 410 cannot have a large side-wheel scope mounted on it because it blocks the magazine area. The MPR is a good 12 ft/lb gun.

I did have an HW100T, but it was in .22. I sold it a while back, but would still have it for sure if it had been in .177. The mechanism was so slick and smooth. Windbag had his .177 HW100 at the Waterdown show and anyone that shot it was really impressed. It was just hard to miss anything with the way he had it set up on the bench

Jeremy has the .177 MPR-FT and shoots it at sub 12 ft/lb class and for that purpose, it is excellent. If you want higher power, it is probably not your best option.

Some other guys who have a lot of experience with these guns may chime in.

Tim

_________________
Tim
CAFTA Governor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:42 am
Posts: 4080
Location: Somewhere In Time
Mac wrote:
Pumpmaster and I have the same gun. It is an S400-SL. It is a single shot gun, side lever mechanism and adjustable power from about 7 or 8 ft/lb up to over 20 ft/lb in .177. Other than my ld/SS, it is the gun I use for serious FT. I am not using a harness now, so the S400 is my main gun. I have an MPR and a 410 Carbine and all of them are accurate enough for FT. The 410 cannot have a large side-wheel scope mounted on it because it blocks the magazine area. The MPR is a good 12 ft/lb gun.

I did have an HW100T, but it was in .22. I sold it a while back, but would still have it for sure if it had been in .177. The mechanism was so slick and smooth. Windbag had his .177 HW100 at the Waterdown show and anyone that shot it was really impressed. It was just hard to miss anything with the way he had it set up on the bench

Jeremy has the .177 MPR-FT and shoots it at sub 12 ft/lb class and for that purpose, it is excellent. If you want higher power, it is probably not your best option.

Some other guys who have a lot of experience with these guns may chime in.

Tim


Alright perfect, thanks for the info Tim, much appreciated.......I would like to have higher power so I can use the gun for other things too; pesting and long range/target shooting

-Joel.G

_________________
"Are you guys silly? I'm still gonna send it..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:44 pm 
Offline
Supporting Member 2009
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:45 pm
Posts: 501
Location: Toronto, ON
Okay, here's my two cents worth- bear in mind that I own a range of FT PCPs (including an S410) and have shot the HW100 as well.

First off, is you're budget. Are you talking about spending $1k on the entire rig, or just the rifle? Bear in mind that a scope can cost $1,000. BUT the Bushnell 4200 8-32 is EXCELLENT (has won world and national FT championships) and can be found for $400USD. The 4200 6-24 is also excellent, and a bit cheaper, PLUS you can get it in mil dot, which is a BIG bonus.

The HW100 and the S400/S410 are equally accurate. Will one specific HW100 outshoot one specific S400- YES, but it'll happen the other way around too. In fact, I own a .22 Discovery that will shoot as good as my $3k Steyr LG100ZM, I've done it in a 50 yard indoor range with other CAF members present.

You don't see too many HW100's on the FT scene. They're AMAZING rifles, but they're just not that popular for whatever reason- my guess is the ergonomics of it and the weight. They are great rifles though, and I do plan to own one one day.

I currently own a S410 Carbine in a custom FT stock. It's as accurate as can be and the stock really helps out with the ergonomics.

Are you handy? Do you like to tinker? If so, you can use a Discovery. Sounds crazy, but they can be setup to shoot as accurate as any UK/German rifle. I've been beaten by one in a US regional FT match, and I've beaten other Canadian FT shooters using $2k rifles with mine.

Here's the fellow who beat me in the US, he likes to tinker and has built a great stock for his Disco:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/451309/m ... k+Part+3...

Back to the S410. The magazine will get in the way of any side focus scope, unless you use a 'comma' type wheel, as it can be rotated out of the way. The only readily available comma's are for the Nikko Diamond scope, which is $900USD, but I'm sure you could have one made up for whatever side wheel scope you use.

Speaking of scopes; there's only 3 I would use: the Nikko Diamond ($900USD) the Leupold Competition 40x ($1300) or that Bushnell for $400.. it really is that good. I've owned all 3, and for the sake of consistency across all my FT rigs, I now own 3 of the Nikko Diamonds; but there's nothing wrong with the Bushnel.

S410 again: if you put the Bushnell on it, you don't have to worry, as it's a front focus scope. If you're going to spend less $$ on a scope, here's a hint: Buy one that is front focus, not side focus. On the lower end scopes, it's tough to get it right with side focus, so with an equal value side focus and front focus scope, you'll normally get better optics with the front focus.

That being said, I used a Leapers 8-32 side focus for a year, and it was great for the $$. Others (like Supermatic) had a hell of a bad time with theirs, they kept breaking.

LASTLY, let's talk about power. What power do you want to shoot at? I, and Canadian shooters, are on a real 12ftlb kick. Why? well firstly, the world matches are all held at 12ftlbs, and secondly (and surprisingly) you can score just as high with a 12ftlb as with a 20ftlb rifle. By using a 12ftlb rifle, you'll also get a lot more shots before you have to fill, and you can either shoot the open class (and use a harness / laser range finder) or the international class (no harness, no laser range finder)

Personally I would purchase an Air Arms MPR FT. They are basically a S400, but with an upgraded barrel (the S400 are as accurate, but the MPR will have a better ballistic coefficient) and they have an adjustable FT stock and trigger blade. They come in 12ftlbs, but you can bump up the power if you want to. You could also buy the 10m version (smaller air tube, and slightly different stock) then bump that up to 12ftlbs.

If you want the multishot, get the S410, you can then shoot it at high power, or turn it down to 12ftlbs, you can then get a custom stock (or a MPR stock, they're about $250) and an MPR trigger blade (about $50). If you want a Carbine, they only come in 12ftlb, but you could increase the power a bit (say 15ftlb, but honestly, you don't need to)

WHERE TO BUY? Honestly, I'd buy it out of the US. If you want new Air Arms, call up Bori from Top Gun Airguns http://topgun-airguns.com/ he's the BEST price in North America, period. It's not issues shipping to Canada either. If you want used, goto the Yellow Classifieds. Here's a great deal on a S410: http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/me ... Large+pics!

good luck.

Here's a

_________________
Tom
CAFTA Governor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Ontario, CANADA
I own an S410 in .22 and cannot believe how accurate it is and how consistantly it shoots considering it is non-regulated. However, Windbag let me try out his HW100 at the Waterdown show and that is the AG I will be purchasing for next seasons HFT competition. Either way, you cannot go wrong...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:42 am
Posts: 4080
Location: Somewhere In Time
pirellip wrote:
Okay, here's my two cents worth- bear in mind that I own a range of FT PCPs (including an S410) and have shot the HW100 as well.

First off, is you're budget. Are you talking about spending $1k on the entire rig, or just the rifle? Bear in mind that a scope can cost $1,000. BUT the Bushnell 4200 8-32 is EXCELLENT (has won world and national FT championships) and can be found for $400USD. The 4200 6-24 is also excellent, and a bit cheaper, PLUS you can get it in mil dot, which is a BIG bonus.

The HW100 and the S400/S410 are equally accurate. Will one specific HW100 outshoot one specific S400- YES, but it'll happen the other way around too. In fact, I own a .22 Discovery that will shoot as good as my $3k Steyr LG100ZM, I've done it in a 50 yard indoor range with other CAF members present.

You don't see too many HW100's on the FT scene. They're AMAZING rifles, but they're just not that popular for whatever reason- my guess is the ergonomics of it and the weight. They are great rifles though, and I do plan to own one one day.

I currently own a S410 Carbine in a custom FT stock. It's as accurate as can be and the stock really helps out with the ergonomics.

Are you handy? Do you like to tinker? If so, you can use a Discovery. Sounds crazy, but they can be setup to shoot as accurate as any UK/German rifle. I've been beaten by one in a US regional FT match, and I've beaten other Canadian FT shooters using $2k rifles with mine.

Here's the fellow who beat me in the US, he likes to tinker and has built a great stock for his Disco:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/451309/m ... k+Part+3...

Back to the S410. The magazine will get in the way of any side focus scope, unless you use a 'comma' type wheel, as it can be rotated out of the way. The only readily available comma's are for the Nikko Diamond scope, which is $900USD, but I'm sure you could have one made up for whatever side wheel scope you use.

Speaking of scopes; there's only 3 I would use: the Nikko Diamond ($900USD) the Leupold Competition 40x ($1300) or that Bushnell for $400.. it really is that good. I've owned all 3, and for the sake of consistency across all my FT rigs, I now own 3 of the Nikko Diamonds; but there's nothing wrong with the Bushnel.

S410 again: if you put the Bushnell on it, you don't have to worry, as it's a front focus scope. If you're going to spend less $$ on a scope, here's a hint: Buy one that is front focus, not side focus. On the lower end scopes, it's tough to get it right with side focus, so with an equal value side focus and front focus scope, you'll normally get better optics with the front focus.

That being said, I used a Leapers 8-32 side focus for a year, and it was great for the $$. Others (like Supermatic) had a hell of a bad time with theirs, they kept breaking.

LASTLY, let's talk about power. What power do you want to shoot at? I, and Canadian shooters, are on a real 12ftlb kick. Why? well firstly, the world matches are all held at 12ftlbs, and secondly (and surprisingly) you can score just as high with a 12ftlb as with a 20ftlb rifle. By using a 12ftlb rifle, you'll also get a lot more shots before you have to fill, and you can either shoot the open class (and use a harness / laser range finder) or the international class (no harness, no laser range finder)

Personally I would purchase an Air Arms MPR FT. They are basically a S400, but with an upgraded barrel (the S400 are as accurate, but the MPR will have a better ballistic coefficient) and they have an adjustable FT stock and trigger blade. They come in 12ftlbs, but you can bump up the power if you want to. You could also buy the 10m version (smaller air tube, and slightly different stock) then bump that up to 12ftlbs.

If you want the multishot, get the S410, you can then shoot it at high power, or turn it down to 12ftlbs, you can then get a custom stock (or a MPR stock, they're about $250) and an MPR trigger blade (about $50). If you want a Carbine, they only come in 12ftlb, but you could increase the power a bit (say 15ftlb, but honestly, you don't need to)

WHERE TO BUY? Honestly, I'd buy it out of the US. If you want new Air Arms, call up Bori from Top Gun Airguns http://topgun-airguns.com/ he's the BEST price in North America, period. It's not issues shipping to Canada either. If you want used, goto the Yellow Classifieds. Here's a great deal on a S410: http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/me ... Large+pics!

good luck.

Here's a



Thanks for all that info, Ill try to address as much of it as possible......

Price: I would like to spend $900-$1000 on the gun, and maybe $150-$250 on the scope. I have a Leapers 6-24x50mm that has adjustment on the bell, maybe this would work for FT? I would prefer to spend as little as possible, more emphasis on the gun than scope for right now. I figure I can always get a better scope for less than a new/better gun......

Gun: I personally do not like the looks of the HW100, not that that is the reason to buy a gun. But it is also a little bit more than I want to spend. I am thinking of getting an Air Arms, either the S400 MBR FT or the S410. I would like power adjustability, and the option of having a repeater. Maybe the S410 with MBR stock would be perfect, maybe I can find one used from someone........

I was also wondering; I should get the gun in .177cal right? I'm assuming .22cal would just make it harder when shooting FT??

Another option I was thinking abut was springers, TX200 Mk3 or something like that very high end. Are they worth considering? I know Tom Gaylord and just about everyone speaks extremely highly of the TX200.......

Thanks again.
-Joel.G

_________________
"Are you guys silly? I'm still gonna send it..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 8936
Location: Coalmont BC
If you are interested in Hunter Class (HFT) a scope to consider is the Bushnell Legend 5-15 x 40 AO Mil Dot.... They are about $240 and are front focus, and meet the 16X maximum allowed in HFT.... Or for half that price, you could get a Leapers 4-16 x 50 AO.... As bargain scopes go it's very good, although you probably shouldn't expect to use the turrets and have them return to zero every time.... If you learn to use the MilDots though it would be up to the job in HFT (and in your price range).... 8)

I don't have any experience with high powered scopes and using the focus for ranging so can't comment on those.... :roll:

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:41 pm
Posts: 665
Location: Ontario
Your Leapers scope,would be fine to start shooting FT with.FT can be shot with .177 .20 and .22 cal,but the magority of FT shooters use .177 cal as some of the kill zones can be as small as 3/8th(if im not mistaken)so a .177 cal pellet is more forgiving.When it come to springers along side the TX200 i would add an HW97k...

_________________
Currently Shooting
RWS Hammerli 850 Air magnum .177 HPA
Slavia 630 with 6X bugbuster
Beeman P17 with Tasco red dot


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:45 am
Posts: 2099
Location: Southern Ontario
jgoodz420 - you haven't really specified which division you plan on shooting in. If you could let us know that, we may be able to help with your decision a bit more.
Another bit of advice - buy the best scope you can afford right off the bat. It will save you money in the long run! You can spend a few hundred here and there on inexpensive scopes, but if/when you discover they don't perform the way you'd like during a match you'll want to upgrade. There will be nothing more frustrating than spending $1000 on a rifle, only to be inaccurate with it because of shortcomings with your scope!!!
Entry level scopes do not hold their value well at all, and reselling them can be tough.
If you purchase something like the suggested Bushnell 4200 right off the bat, you'll not only be satisfied with it, but if you ever choose to sell it, you'll have plenty of interested buyers for a scope that will retain much of it's value.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:42 am
Posts: 4080
Location: Somewhere In Time
Pumpmaster wrote:
jgoodz420 - you haven't really specified which division you plan on shooting in. If you could let us know that, we may be able to help with your decision a bit more.
Another bit of advice - buy the best scope you can afford right off the bat. It will save you money in the long run! You can spend a few hundred here and there on inexpensive scopes, but if/when you discover they don't perform the way you'd like during a match you'll want to upgrade. There will be nothing more frustrating than spending $1000 on a rifle, only to be inaccurate with it because of shortcomings with your scope!!!
Entry level scopes do not hold their value well at all, and reselling them can be tough.
If you purchase something like the suggested Bushnell 4200 right off the bat, you'll not only be satisfied with it, but if you ever choose to sell it, you'll have plenty of interested buyers for a scope that will retain much of it's value.


Well I would probably like to shoot -12ft/lb, I cant remember all the class designations though :oops: But I think power adjustment may give me options to go into different classes? I just don't want to get destroyed all the time by people who have shot longer than Ive been alive :lol: But whatever, that is not my main concern, harder competition will just raise my skill, hopefully :lol:

As for the scope, I will consider a better scope, I understand what you mean; it doesn't make sense to put $100-$150 scope on a $1100 gun.....As I'm sure the gun will greatly outperform the scope, also as you said I do not want to run into problems because i cheeped out on a scope...........

-Joel.G

_________________
"Are you guys silly? I'm still gonna send it..."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO