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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:45 pm 
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jgoodz420 wrote:
Maybe i can just use my 6-24x50mm for now

Good idea. I also owned a Leapers 8-32x56. Mine was a good scope, but since you already own the 6-24 I'd stick with that until you decide what you want to do.
I'd also recommend purchasing a rifle/scope combination that will allow you to shoot in multiple divisions. (ie:get a scope/rifle that will work for both Hunter and International)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:24 pm 
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jgoodz420 wrote:
UPDATE: The S410 fits into MBR FT stock, which I can get for $150. So I think I may get a S410 and the S400 FT stock, use one stock for hunting, one for FT :lol: Then I can also just get Beech stock (ill save $250, -$150 for other stock though, so ill still be saving $100....) as I will have another stock all together for FT....

Now another main question is; how crucial is the caliber? I would really like to get the gun in .22cal so it can be used for pesting. Is this a terrible idea? I obviously understand that .22cal may be harder as it is bigger in diameter; but how much harder is +0.021" on each side???

-Joel.G


Where can you get an MPR (not MBR) stock for $150?? That's an outstanding deal, $100 less than I've ever seen them. Is this in Canada?

I have 2 stocks for my S410, one standard Beech, and my FT stock. I've yet to put my Beech stock back on, but I haven't sold it yet either, so I guess I may do so.

When it comes to caliber, unless you want to get a 35+ftlb S410 for hunting bigger animals, like ground hogs, (and only then with a head shot) I don't see much point in going with .22 really. Plus only the older style S410s will get you 35 ftlbs. The newer ones max out at 32.

Rabbits and squirrels can be killed with a 12ftlb .177 easily, raccoons require a bit more, but 20ftlbs is plenty. Regardless you need to only make head shots, body shots just don't cut it in a humane way (especially with raccoons)

The other nice thing is that a .177 is travelling a lot faster for the same energy level, so in both hunting and FT, you don't have to worry about trajectory as much.

If you want a pure hunting / hunter FT rig, look into a scope with a smaller objective, and mount it as close to the barrel as possible, so your 'point blank zero' is as long as possible. I have my Disco at 10-35 yards, and my Harrier at 9.5-43 yards with a .5" KZ

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:14 pm 
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jgoodz420 wrote:
pirellip wrote:
I meant to say it's NOT worth the upgrade, I missed the 'not' and those prices are for Bushnell's.

using a 32x in hunter isn't a waste, as you just turn it down to 16x.

As others have said, if you buy a Bushnell, you can sell it without taking much of a hit. I found a GREAT deal on mine in the US, and ended up selling it for EXACTLY what I paid for it. The buyer was happy too, as he received a great deal also. When I sold my Leapers 8-32, I lost 50% of my purchase price..



OK, thats what I was thinking you meant........

I would like to get Bushnell if possible, but I am not allowed into the USA, and I am not too concerned about trying to change that either :roll: So if I can buy one in Canada, or have one shipped to me I will get one, if not I will just have to get something else. What about Hawke scopes? are they any good? any recommendations

-Joel.G
I have two Hawke scopes....an Eclipse 30 4-16x50 and a Sidewinder 30 8-32x56. So far they have both performed well considering their price but for my HFT AG I will get the same scope as Windbag has.....Bushnell 6500 2.5-16x42mil-dot. Amazing optics on that thing. The Bushnell 4200 you are considering is available from straightshooters.com and they do ship to Canada. Interesting discussion here on the new Hawke FT scope....
http://www.airarmsownersclub.com/viewto ... =2&t=21645


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:49 pm 
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pirellip wrote:
jgoodz420 wrote:
UPDATE: The S410 fits into MBR FT stock, which I can get for $150. So I think I may get a S410 and the S400 FT stock, use one stock for hunting, one for FT :lol: Then I can also just get Beech stock (ill save $250, -$150 for other stock though, so ill still be saving $100....) as I will have another stock all together for FT....

Now another main question is; how crucial is the caliber? I would really like to get the gun in .22cal so it can be used for pesting. Is this a terrible idea? I obviously understand that .22cal may be harder as it is bigger in diameter; but how much harder is +0.021" on each side???

-Joel.G


Where can you get an MPR (not MBR) stock for $150?? That's an outstanding deal, $100 less than I've ever seen them. Is this in Canada?

I have 2 stocks for my S410, one standard Beech, and my FT stock. I've yet to put my Beech stock back on, but I haven't sold it yet either, so I guess I may do so.

When it comes to caliber, unless you want to get a 35+ftlb S410 for hunting bigger animals, like ground hogs, (and only then with a head shot) I don't see much point in going with .22 really. Plus only the older style S410s will get you 35 ftlbs. The newer ones max out at 32.

Rabbits and squirrels can be killed with a 12ftlb .177 easily, raccoons require a bit more, but 20ftlbs is plenty. Regardless you need to only make head shots, body shots just don't cut it in a humane way (especially with raccoons)

The other nice thing is that a .177 is travelling a lot faster for the same energy level, so in both hunting and FT, you don't have to worry about trajectory as much.

If you want a pure hunting / hunter FT rig, look into a scope with a smaller objective, and mount it as close to the barrel as possible, so your 'point blank zero' is as long as possible. I have my Disco at 10-35 yards, and my Harrier at 9.5-43 yards with a .5" KZ



Yeah very good point......

I think I should just get it in .177cal as I have a Condor in .22cal, that is really my hunting gun as it doubles the S410's power, and also has amazing accuracy to go along with it..........

As you were saying I will have better trajectory, and (correct me if I'm wrong) wouldn't a .177cal use slightly less air giving a couple more shots/fill? I'm not sure why I think that, it just seems plausible :roll: :lol:

I guess in reality the 0.0215" difference from .177cal to .22cal would make a difference over 60 shots; more than once I'm sure depending on the kill-zone size, as some are as small as 1/4" if I'm not mistaken........

Thanks
-Joel.G

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:58 pm 
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My S410 was .22. After shooting a season of Hunter with it I decided that I was hooked on FT, so I bought the S400 in .177 for my dedicated FT rig. As you said, you already have a powerful .22, so why not get the advantages of .177 for FT?
All that said, my new hunter rig is .20 :rolleyes:
BTW...be wary of windbag's advice...he has a knack for blowing your budget out of the water :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 pm 
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UPDATE: I just finished ordering my S410 in .177cal w/Beech :D :D :D and will be ordering a MPR FT stock to go along with it.......
Thanks for everyone's input and advice feel free to keep it coming.......any tips or tricks for the gun would be appreciated as well, thanks again......

-Joel.G

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:10 am 
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Location: Ontario, CANADA
jgoodz420 wrote:
UPDATE: I just finished ordering my S410 in .177cal w/Beech :D :D :D and will be ordering a MPR FT stock to go along with it.......
Thanks for everyone's input and advice feel free to keep it coming.......any tips or tricks for the gun would be appreciated as well, thanks again......

-Joel.G

Congrats, you are gonna really like that AG! Here's some parts you might be interested in....
http://airgunclips.com/
They sell through PomonaAirguns in Calif. Steve is your contact person there.
http://www.pomona-airguns.com/


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:08 am 
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Congrats on the new addition...

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:41 am 
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Congrats jgoodz420.. 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:01 pm 
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Thanks everyone, cant wait to get my S410 in.........

Here are a few Graph's I made in Chairgun; I was doing a comparison of .177cal JSB Exact Heavy @ 935fps (10.3gr @ .0310BC) to .22cal JSB Exact 752fps(15.9gr. @ .0310BC) both shooting 20FPE at the muzzle. I wanted to see all the differences between drop, wind, POI, penetration etc. From these calculations it becomes very clear how much of an advantage .177cal is over .22cal when you are restricted to 20FPE.........

The amount of wind deflection when shot at same muzzle energy 90* wind @ 10mph I thought this would be the other way around?? something moving faster will have more stability though, says physics :lol:
Image



The amount of wind deflection when shot at same muzzle velocity 90* wind @ 10mph....The lines are directly on top of each other.......
Image



POI when both zeroed at 50yds........ the .177cal stays within .80" from 15yds to 50yds :shock: :shock: :shock:
Image



Time to reach target..... at 0.5sec .177cal is at 121yds. and .22cal is at 101yds
Image



Absolute Velocity........ the .177cal seems to loose velocity slightly faster, but is still well ahead of the .22cal even out to 300yds (not that you can even shoot that far, I just mean in theory)
Image



Absolute Energy.......both are being fired at 20FPE, same BC, so that makes sense I guess.........
Image



Drop....... at 100yds. the .177cal drops 26.5" and the .22cal drops 41.0" :shock:
Image



Mil-dots........
Image



Absolute Momentum....... the .22cal obviously carries more momentum, but is also losing it faster than the .177cal
Image



Penetration.......... the .177cal penetrates 1.8" deeper than .22cal at the muzzle, and at 150yds. 0.5" deeper than .22cal......
Image

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:22 pm 
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jgoodz420 wrote:
.......any tips or tricks for the gun would be appreciated as well,


Your gonna be tempted to reach for the AA more and more and start ignoring your other guns. *tip*- don;t piss off the Condor ! You may come home from shooting some day and find the Condor has done some nasty things to you other guns :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:07 pm 
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Cadeau wrote:
jgoodz420 wrote:
.......any tips or tricks for the gun would be appreciated as well,


Your gonna be tempted to reach for the AA more and more and start ignoring your other guns. *tip*- don;t piss off the Condor ! You may come home from shooting some day and find the Condor has done some nasty things to you other guns :twisted:



LOL Its true, you never mess with a Condor :twisted:

I think they will be the only two guns getting used for awhile, pinpoint power in the Condor and hair splitting finesse with the S410........What more could I need? I don't know now, but I'm sure ill think it :lol:

Cant wait to get out and shoot this thing, I got a call from the nice people at airgunsource today informing me they just happen to have a MPR FT stock in!!!! (only 1 of them too, just for the other person who was asking but it sounds like they can order them in, and yes they are $150!!! very good deal for a adjustable AA walnut FT stock :shock: ) so looks like I don't have to wait after all :mrgreen: they also tested it for me and the S410 drops in no problems.....

Cant wait!!! :o :rolleyes:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:44 am 
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Cadeau wrote:
jgoodz420 wrote:
.......any tips or tricks for the gun would be appreciated as well,


Your gonna be tempted to reach for the AA more and more and start ignoring your other guns. *tip*- don;t piss off the Condor ! You may come home from shooting some day and find the Condor has done some nasty things to you other guns :twisted:



:lol: :lol:
x2 on that.... especially when you see how much more quiet the AA is compared to the the Condor plus the 10 shot magazine and for me it was the beautiful warm feeling of a wood stock compared to the cold feeling of plastic and that foam thingy over the tank.

If you must then here's a vid on how to clean/polish the striker rod guide. The only dif is we don't have the anti-tamper and don't need to drill any thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Srn78Pz5TA&feature=fvw

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:52 am 
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jgoodz4 wrote:
airgunsource today informing me they just happen to have a MPR FT stock in!!!! (only 1 of them too, just for the other person who was asking but it sounds like they can order them in, and yes they are $150!!! very good deal for a adjustable AA walnut FT stock :shock: )


Excellent Score!

I'm tempted to pick up a .177 version but airgunsource just sent me an e-mail telling me they are trying to get some Daystate air rifles in the new year. Daystate builds to order I was told. I told airgunsouce I'm in for an Air Wolf MCT 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:33 am 
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Quote:
If you must then here's a vid on how to clean/polish the striker rod guide. The only dif is we don't have the anti-tamper and don't need to drill any thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Srn78Pz5TA&feature=fvw


So what exactly does that do? just smoother operation?

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