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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:59 pm 
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Location: Coalmont BC
HI Mac....

Please rule on whether the stock shown in the drawing below.... which is made of one piece of wood.... is legal for Hunter Field Target:

Image

Thanks....

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:20 pm 
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rsterne - why not focus some of your energy on starting a FT club in your area? Then you will be free to set whatever rules you like.
As Mac said, what we have here is working for us. Until you're here at a match competing, it would be gentlemanly of you to just keep your opinions on our rules to yourself from here on out.
You disagree - we all get it.


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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:50 pm 
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Quote:
Then you will be free to set whatever rules you like.

I thought the whole point of CAFTA was to have a unified set of rules for Canada?.... I am continually told that the rules are fine and don't need any changes.... but I'll be darned if I can figure them out.... My only alternative, therefore.... is to ask questions....

I don't think you really have a clue where I'm coming from.... I personally would like to see a rule for HFT that states "no part of the forestock may be below a line parallel to the barrel and 1/2" (or whatever measurement is deemed appropriate) below the bottom of the trigger blade".... or something similar.... This type of rule would allow a person to build a stock that A.) fits them.... and B.) allows them the same advantages as other rifles/stocks which ARE allowed in HFT but with no interpretation of the rules necessary....

My whole point here is WTF difference does it make what materials or how many pieces the stock is made of?.... The rules for HFT should be written around rifles that are normally used for hunting.... I hate rules that are open to interpretation (look at the mess that causes).... and I hate even MORE when people start quoting "the spirit of the rules" because that is always indicitive that the rules are poorly written and people then feel they have to defend them in that way because the written rule is imprecise....

I think that rather than trying to silence me.... you should be working towards a level playing field.... That is ALL I am trying to acheive.... For the life of me, I can't figure out why all the resistance to better rules.... :roll:

A much wiser man than I once said.... "don't criticize something if you can't come up with a better alternative".... I sincerely hope that the CAFTA Board at least look at my suggestion.... All I'm asking for is to level the playing field....

Bob

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Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:19 pm 
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Location: Southern Ontario
As a guy who doesn't shoot any of the HFT matches that are currently being held, it is strange that you would think you can dictate rule changes to your satisfaction.
If any of the guys currently shooting had such strong opinions against the current rules, there is a process they can follow to bring this up to the CAFTA governors.
Does that guarantee there will be a change? No, of course not. If these hard working guys manage to find a way to keep everybody happy, my hat is off to them.
As Mac has already stated, what we currently have in place works for the core group that shoots every match. As suggestions come up for changes to the current rules, the governors consider their merit and make changes as they see fit.


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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:30 pm 
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Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
Pumpmaster wrote:
As a guy who doesn't shoot any of the HFT matches that are currently being held, it is strange that you would think you can dictate rule changes to your satisfaction.
If any of the guys currently shooting had such strong opinions against the current rules, there is a process they can follow to bring this up to the CAFTA governors.
Does that guarantee there will be a change? No, of course not. If these hard working guys manage to find a way to keep everybody happy, my hat is off to them.
As Mac has already stated, what we currently have in place works for the core group that shoots every match. As suggestions come up for changes to the current rules, the governors consider their merit and make changes as they see fit.


not playing the game does not disqualify an enthusiast from an observation. I do not shoot HFT but sure would if I could :)
and am in agreement that a ruling could be spelled out to clear this up. IIRC it was said that it would be clarified over the winter.
Please don't shut down decent discussion of an interesting issue.

Walter....

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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:34 pm 
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Quote:
there is a process they can follow to bring this up to the CAFTA governors.

Please post the process.... I had hoped all the controversy over this issue previously would have resulted in more than it simply being ignored.... We were promised this issue would be addressed over the winter....

I take a very dim view of your references to:

Quote:
what we have here is working for us....
Until you're here at a match....
works for the core group that shoots every match....


Those are extremely eliteist comments.... Canada does not stop at the Ontario border (even though the Federal Government thinks is does).... Perhaps if "you over there" realized that, we could all get along.... CAFTA states that it wants to grow and support FT across Canada.... I guess I'm saying "prove it"....

Bob

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Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:40 pm 
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Pumpmaster wrote:
You guys want LESS restrictive rules so you can use whatever stock you want, but want MORE restrictive rules on what rifles can be used, based solely on retail price. I can guarantee you I had less $$$ in that used S410 than a bunch of guys have into modified QBs or 22XX platforms. I can also guarantee you that in the hands of an inexperienced shooter, an S410 doesn't "buy" you very many points.


Lets just put a price limit on HFT guns :roll: :lol:

It's the person behind the trigger 100%, all the money in the world can't by hard practice and/or skill. I shot a 29/60 one week when I was off my game, and a 45/60 when I had better focus......or maybe it was my little pellet tin that says "Air Arms", yeah, yeah, I bet that was it :wink: :P :lol:

I think these issues/questions/problems would be cleared up quite quickly upon arrival to any CAFTA match.......

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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:46 pm 
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Voltar1 said:
Quote:
IIRC it was said that it would be clarified over the winter.


Mac stated at the time:
Quote:
I have stated four times in this thread that the vagueness of rules and omissions would be addressed in our annual CAFTA meeting. I would hope that would be understood as an acknowledgment of the fact that there are rules that must be made clearer and others that need things added to them.


Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:21 pm
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Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
Bob, the rules are clear, you simply do not like or agree with them. The mess that you refer to exists in your mind and in those of a few others. Nowhere, in the reality of HFT, do these problems exist.

The CAFTA Governors will continue to respond to the needs of actual participating HFT shooters. At this point, there are no pressing issues. The rules, as written, will be used for the rest of the 2010 season and as always, will be subject to review only in the off season, based on the realities of the past season. What ifs and problems imagined by folks, regardless of where they call home, will not be on the agenda.

The east west thing that you refer to is also something that you have in your mind; it does not exist in mine. I have FT friends from all over the world. It does not seem to matter where you are from at FT matches, we are all just there to enjoy each others company as well as the shooting and always manage to do so.

I'm done talking about this and checking this forum for awhile. I am simply going to enjoy our matches and most of all the great company.

I sure hope Morris is able to get a match going out there soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:56 pm 
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HI Mac....

I still require an answer about the legality of the stock drawing I posted at 11:59 am today....

Thanks....

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:00 pm 
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rsterne wrote:
HI Mac....

I still require an answer about the legality of the stock drawing I posted at 11:59 am today....

Thanks....

Bob


Where is this match that you will be shooting with it? maybe the Match Director there can be of some help......... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:02 pm 
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Quote:
maybe the Match Director there can be of some help

If you can't get a ruling from CAFTA.... then how is there any guarantee of consistency in Canada?....

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:27 pm 
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rsterne wrote:
Quote:
maybe the Match Director there can be of some help

If you can't get a ruling from CAFTA.... then how is there any guarantee of consistency in Canada?....

Bob


It seems like they have given answers, but maybe not your specification or liking. Your questions are definitely understandable, and I am sure that a private conversation with any of the CAFTA governors would yield results. It just really seems like public baiting after the whole thing with your custom 22XX to through up pictures and ask "is this ok?....well, what about this?". Obviously you are entitled to your questions and answers the same as the rest of us, but maybe there is a better way to pursue them.

Also I think people like to test their abilities, and see what their potential is. It's not the kind of thing where you are "in it, to win it" obviously everyone likes to win, but from what I've seen most people are about challenging/improving themselves. It seems people are more interested in having a good time then if someones kneeriser is 3/8" too big or whatever.....Rules are rules, but at this point it just seems like pointless knit-picking.

I feel confident that if you were preparing to go to a match a concrete answer would be provided.......

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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:02 pm 
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I go for the FUN factor.. A day outdoors with my grandkids and other like minded airgun enthusiasts is a day well spent...
Sure it's nice to be competitive, but at what expense?.. If someone wanted to go all out, they could simply shoot in a division that better fits the bill... HFT is a great way into a fun sport. Not sure how much pride one can take away from a match when they go in overly qualified so as to cherry pick an award, knowing darn well they could have found more relevant competition elsewhere ... :lol:

This sport is still growing. The present rules seem to fit the bill, at least for those participating at present time.. I'm sure if things got overly creative in HFT, the rule book would have to be spelled out with the finesse of a politician... :rolleyes:

Heck, just get in on the FUN and ENJOY!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Stock OK for HFT?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:36 am 
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Location: Southern Ontario
Parker_101_ wrote:
This sport is still growing. The present rules seem to fit the bill, at least for those participating at present time.. I'm sure if things got overly creative in HFT, the rule book would have to be spelled out with the finesse of a politician... :rolleyes:

Well said.


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