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 Post subject: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:01 pm
Posts: 197
Location: halton hills
Like many, I have been longing to get out & do some shooting, so in anticipation of the upcoming Pistol Field Target match hopefully still scheduled for Burlington range in April, I decided to check out my 1377 in storage since the last PFT match. Good thing I did. Monday I took it out & found some light surface rust on my Walther barrel with the poor "Blue-job" & around the lettering on the pump tube. Not unusual.
However, while cleaning the rust off with a little oil I discovered several small dents on the tip of the barrel. One of these dents was actually through the crown & seemed to be bulging a bit of material into the bore. INTO the pellet path !!! Could this explain the loopy trajectory that I could see when sighting on paper last year at Burlington?? Was this why my accuracy expectations for this quality made barrel left lacking ? Why had i never noticed these dents before? - It was enough for me to carefully try to recrown the barrel, I lightly filed the face flat again & was left with the one larger dent through the crown. I lightly ground the crown deeper 'till past the dent & bulge but not yet into the lands in the barrel. I polished that up a bit, cleaned my optics & put a drop of oil on the bolt seal.
With the warm temps on Wednesday I went out back for an hour plinking at some spinners, cans, & the skull & bell targets that stayed out over winter. Over all the pistol seemed to be shooting a bit higher than I remembered so, determined to test things further, I took the putty trap inside to thaw out for paper.

Today I got my chance. A bit cool but the wind was just light enough to check things out for an under-500 rig. I set the trap in a new spot across my backyard & found I had almost 20 yards of level ground this way. I marked 10 & 15 yards & set up to shoot. I took the first 5 shots in the chair, over my arm on a cross-legged knee, then decided to sit on my pad & shoot FT style as at a match.

Here are a few pics of my fun and test results. The first 5 shots on ea. target were marked with orange marker. I was pretty pleased with accuracy improvement after target #2 - I can't wait now till she's properly sighted in for PFT. :lol:

Image
-MY 1377 FIELD-TARGET PISTOL w/ Walther barrel, using JSB Exacts 4.53
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-10 and 15 YARDS, pad on 10, far chair on 15 yds.
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-10 YARDS TO TARGET
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-15 YARDS TO TARGET
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-PUTTY TRAP w/ GAMO TARGET
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10 YARD TEST, aimed crosshair on bull from chair for 5, sat FT for 5 compensating by eye
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10 YARD SURPRISE - can't believe my results aiming at bottom of 6 ring! :shock:
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15 YARD TEST & Sight-In
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-OVER-SIGHT & re-sight
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- FINAL 10

I tried to do as well as target 2 but after 2 1/2 hours my fingers were getting so numb I couldn't really feel the trigger well enough. I am happy with the improvement after the repair but still can't figure how or when it could have gotten dented there. :rolleyes:
Oh yeah, I decided to score each target so you may notice i "rounded-down" on half-lines to be conservative.

See Y'all at the PFT Match. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:01 pm
Posts: 197
Location: halton hills
WOW! 30 + views so far & nobody has a comment. Positive or Negative. Hmmmmm? I am SO looking forward to the "SUB-5" PFT match next month.
I had to "call a friend" to determine and/or confirm the date & whether or not it was a GO. - My "Final Answer," ..... I'll BE THERE.

I have more time off than I want lately; Custom picture framing seems to be at an all-time low due to the economy, & the weather was too crappy to go out & shoot & continue sighting in today, so I decided to address the ol' "roll-pin" issue. I needed to create a new pivot-pin for my 1377 & ended up using some neat info gleaned from this great site.
My last (found) pin worked great until it broke at a match. ( roll-pin on standby,)
Cast metal with plating will NOT stand up over any time, (who knew?;) at least I saved two c-clips & the nylon washers from that particular experiment.

I needed something HARDER for a pivot pin & a suggestion from one of our machinist members re: using the smooth end of a drill bit, - SO HARD & yet also available, lead to the creation of this hand-made pin ....

... NOT EASY ... but do-able. Two cheap files were nearly sacrificed to a certain degree & I even used the razor-blade to shave the nylon washers in half the hard way, then sanded them to fit. - 3 hours at least with no machine-shop. :roll: but I figure the less time i watch the wandering roll-pin is more time concentrating on the game. :idea:

- 3 more pix 4 fun.

Image
- WHERE THERE IS A WILL ....
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- THERE IS A WAY !
Image

D.I.Y. :)


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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:06 pm 
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Nice job with the mods PK..
I too am looking forward to the next match.. See you there...

Thanks for sharing! ...

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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:56 pm 
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Location: Toronto Ont.
Mc Gyver would be proud!!!

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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:15 pm 
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Its looking good Rob, I just pulled "Snoopy" out the other day and started tweaking everything as well, can't wait for this next match...

Is that a scope on there? I thought you had a red-dot? what class are you shooting? :)

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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:01 pm
Posts: 197
Location: halton hills
Hi Guys. I'm glad to see that there are others feeling that anticipation too. :wink: Time to " SCOPE it out, " & get that PFT rig up to snuff if you're considering checking things out folks.
- jgoodz, - I shoot Pistol Field Target in the "Scoped" division & that's a 4x32 Crosman " Air Guns" scope on my " American Classic " 1377.
I look forward to to seeing you & Snoop-Dog, alias Vulture & WW1 Flying Ace, a.k.a. the Red Baron so we can continue our pumper "comparison."
- Thx. Parker, I know I'm the only one who has handled it since receiving the barrel in the mail, but never saw the wee dents before, after re-crowning slightly I decided to re-test over the Chrony because the weather was CRAP the last couple days.

Image
- MID-MARCH ACCUMULATION
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- 'S NO - FUN

Certainly not plinkin' in the backyard. So I thought I would test the rig indoors.

A few results now for 1377/2289 enthusiasts.

To clarify- mods on my 1377 at present include replacing both the breech & barrel, the breech is steel & has a dovetail to accept a scope & the barrel is a Walther Match-Grade barrel for 10 m pistols; I had to lightly sand the barrel to initially fit it to the breech.
I did try a "flat-top" piston to try to reduce pumping but reverted to original piston. Trigger smoothed out internally at contact points & also added a 'trigger-surface-widener?" as you can see in the pics. The transfer-port was enlarged slightly to get it close to 500 fps & the wooden pump handle was added to avoid pinching my hand & add weight to the front for FT style shooting.

Sometimes logic supersedes logistics though, & you end up trying to make sense of the accumulated information.

Thus, finally, my Chrony results over the last couple of snowy days.

I wanted to see if re-crowning made a difference to overall Feet Per Second speed besides improving accuracy.
Yes it did. by @ 3.8 to5 fps. & my pistol was totally shooting 490 + a little at 11 PUMPS. Now it was going OVER 500 by as much as 6 fps. ( too high to be fair with a PFT match.

***** 10 Shots - 11 PUMPS - JSB EXACT 4.53
LOW-494.6 fps
HIGH-506.1 fps
DIFF- 11.5 fps
AVERAGE OVERALL -496.36 fps

***** 5 Shots - 11 PUMPS- JSB HEAVY- 4.52, & .127 g heavier. (for fun)
LOW- 447.9 fps
HIGH- 457.0 fps
DIFF- 9.1 fps
AVERAGE OVERALL - 451.78

***** 10 Shots - 10 PUMPS - JSB EXACT 4.53
LOW-478.0 fps
HIGH-489.8 fps
DIFF- 11.8 fps
AVERAGE OVERALL - 484.0 fps

Looks like I will be going with 10 Pumps & my regular pellets, but now I need to re-sight using 10.

TOTALLY for FUN I decided to see how much a jump you can get pump for pump with a 1377 so took two shots each from a single pump up to 11 pumps averaged the two shots & measured the jump.

1 pump avg. 168.0 fps - 2 pumps avg. 257.5 fps - jump 89.5 fps
2-257.5 - jump 67 fps
3-324.5 - jump 46.8
4-371.3 - jump 28.9
5-400.2 - jump 22.45
6-422.65-jump 21.6
7-444.25-jump 20.5
8-464.75-jump 13.5
9-478.25-jump 13.5
10-495.5- jump 17.25
11-496.36-jump only 0.86

All very interesting of course, I still need to sight in better but learn more & hope this info is useful to somebody out there.

With any luck, I will see a few of you at the PFT match :)


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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 6834
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
THAT is a lot of pumping......

have you considered a Zoraki?

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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:01 pm
Posts: 197
Location: halton hills
Voltar1 wrote:
THAT is a lot of pumping......


Yeah, but I have to say that at my age, a little extra pumping-exercise can do naught but good; whether on an FT course or in bed. :oops:

Thanx 4 reply, I'm going to have to google the model of air-pistol you mentioned. Do you have a link?

In the meantime, seeing as I have to re-sight the unit in hand for the eminent "shoot" anyway, :oops: :D - I may try a new test method this weekend to see how much air is leaking out via the transfer port. With the recent Chrony test indicating a variance of @ 11 fps on average, shot to shot, with an equal number of pumps, there can be only 3 ways this variance can be reduced.

1) - It may be pellet weight/diameter difference. ( with JSB's that's bottom on the list.)
2) - It may be air escaping around the pump-piston-seal. ( ? doubted with the recent numbers.)
2) - It may be air escaping around the metal-on-metal contact between the outer edges of the transfer port & the pump-tube. ( This could be it.)

Formerly, i have tested this possibility by tearing a 1 inch-ish square or SMALLER from a bit of tissue or TP; fold it in half, pump or prep the gun, lay the folded TP in the valley between the barrel & tube & fire (in a safe direction,) & see if the tissue moves.
My new idea for this test was inspired by a TV commercial for America's Funniest Vids that gets a lot of "Air" in Canada where an infant "caught on tape" blows a wee fart & sends up a HUGE plume of white dust. It's cute, Seen it ? I'm going to "borrow" some talc off of the Mrs. this weekend & see if it jibes.

I hope people view their 1377's differently. - Me gotta be cheap. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:01 pm
Posts: 197
Location: halton hills
Hey Alaus, neat quip, have you seen Mac Gruber, the Movie ? It's a SPOOF on the TV show from the late SEVENTIES & is a lot of fun for adults @ our age to watch. :D
I do have to say that us frugal & ingenious NEWFIES have all of em BEAT when it comes to making a lot out of little. Move Over Mac Gyver !!!!!!!!!!!!

In my fervor, I ALMOST missed your reply so thanx. -PK


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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:39 pm 
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Nice job on that pivot pin 8) Shows that you don't need a machine shop. Just perseverence and some hand tools. 8) But a cheap dremel may sure make upgrades and repairs easier. :wink: And the more pumpin the better. Even at our age. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:01 pm
Posts: 197
Location: halton hills
Thanx 4 reply Re: pivot-pin Scruffie. I spent @ 3 hours creating that because i couldn't find a single item that would have done the job at the local hardware shops & Necessity IS the MOTHER of INVENTION after all... It also makes pumping the rig up easier ( due to smoother & HARDER metal,) than it did with a Roll-Pin
.
I have to thank one BC machinist, ( i can't remember the name,) who mentioned making them for sale on THIS site, who inspired me to TRY to make it by hand. One thing, though, - do NOT use a titanium plated bit if using hand-tools. I ended up using my "Princess-Auto-imported-knockoff " of a dremel tool to finally cut the shank off of the bit. It worked, & I wondered if i shouldn't of used it for the rest of the job. Then i realized that with the high RPM's being hand-held it was safer for my fingers etc. using jeweler's files. :wink: - Slow & Steady won the race, - the brothers Grimm would'a been proud !

Since then, I tried the experimental method of testing air-leakage that i mentioned above. Took the pistol apart twice, made ever-so-slight mods to the transfer-port parts each time & wound up with a tiny increase in F.P.S. & a teeny-weeny improvement in consistency overall, so the concept was at least minimally viable. I now know that there is a slight loss of air around the valve-pin on the rear end of the valve as well but you absolutely can NOT modify that !

Once again, I hope this info helps SOMEONE, & also, I hope it encourages anybody with an under/500 pistol to come out & see what the FUN is ALL about with the CANADIAN Field-Target Game. :)

Here is an URL to a very short U-Tube vid Re: the " FART-TEST. "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FTcueWrglA

Spring is almost Sprung, EVERYBODY get out & have some FUN !!! :idea:


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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:57 pm 
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I put a little O-ring on the top of my transfer port to seal it off, not sure what the size is though...

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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:17 pm 
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Posts: 197
Location: halton hills
Yeah, jgoodz, they come with a little rubber seal for the bottom of the T.P but not the top ?? So since my last post I have partially disassembled the pistol twice to try fitting an upper seal on the original TP, then fully disassembled once to entirely replace the original set-up with a bit of good-old poly-tube.
Monday, I tested this over the chrony & got the following 10 shot string - it was just right at 11 pumps with less fluctuation overall in speed.
492.3 fps
489.4
493.8
495.5
493.5
497.7
495.5
493.6
497.8
498.6
I figured this would be pretty reliable at the target end for PFT and actually got the chance today to re-sight after making the changes.
The backyard actually warmed up enough & most of the snow almost gone so I went for it even though there was a light wind off & on.
Here's a pic of the last three targets I shot today after peppering several to sight in even this much.
Image

I know I got to chattin' about some mod-stuff on this thread, but I hope starting the PFT conversation early encourages some more of you to get on out to the upcoming match, after all, even a 1377 can provide hours & hours of enjoyment. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:26 pm 
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POWDERKEG wrote:
Yeah, jgoodz, they come with a little rubber seal for the bottom of the T.P but not the top ??


there is a picture in my "Snoopy thread" of my transfer port with top and bottom seals...I can pull a measurement off of that O-ring if need to get one...

Looks like your about ready eh? :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: PFT Anticipation
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:11 am 
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Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
Did a little sighting in today with the Alfa Pistol and I think it is ready. As for me, we'll see on the 10th.
Image
Image

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