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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:25 am 
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Posts: 11
This is the trigger mod I did. It is called the "soup can trigger mod" as it uses a strip of metal from a can. The bolt, spring and nut is a variation of the same thing. This makes it a true 2 stage trigger with full sear overlap when the gun is cocked. Much safer than adjusting the stock adjusting screw to shorten the sear overlap. Makes for a very light trigger.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:27 am 
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This drawing shows the operating principal.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:11 pm 
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Couldn't expect any less from someone called TriggerHappy, I suppose. Thanks for the simple mod, just did it and figured I posted a step-by-step with pics, for those that may be intimidated or aren't sure which parts to remove. And yes, that is a great contribution on your part, very timely for me since getting a second Phantom a few days ago.
My super heavy trigger is now a lot more responsive. Not dangerously light by any means, it still requires a bit of force which makes this mod safe. Not sure why some claim to have a loose trigger after removing the spring, mine has no more free play than before. I added a couple of oil drops to the trigger's contact points which helps it move forward. Else it may stay in the rear position but a simple push with the finger brings it forward.

Couple of notes about this mod: First remove the scope. I left mine on and wish I had removed it. Makes a lot easier without it, especially when you lube the hinges and want to break the barrel slightly. Very hard to do with the scope in place. Second, take advantage of the stock being out to apply a few drops of oil to the hinges and trigger pivot points.

Please follow the step-by-step on the first page, not going to repeat them here. But the pics pretty much shows it all. I used a small flat head screwdriver to pull up on the pivot pin securing the trigger in place, then used pliers to pull it out. Some may just tap it down but I wanted to avoid scratching it. There are a couple of parts that will drop on their own if not careful, these are outlined in the pics. This is a quick, safe mod. All you need are two screw drivers and a bit of pellgun oil (optional).


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:39 pm 
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Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Quote:
Joolz wrote
All you need are two screw drivers and a bit of pellgun oil (optional).


Good picks but why Pellgunoil?! It is not recommended for springers. If it gets into the chamber it may combust (low flashpoint). Pellgunoil is good for CO2 guns and single/multi-pump pneumatics. Furthermore, Pellgunoil is not lubricating oil for moving parts. On the trigger mechanism I would rather use Ballistol oil that lubricates and prevents rust.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:38 pm 
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Thanks for the clarification, I happened to grab the closest thing nearby. Didn't put any of it near the chamber. Seemed fine for the pivot points but then again it is a pretty thin oil. This Ballistol: is this the thick, gooey oil that comes from the factory? Hope it isn't as incredibly smelly as the cheap Chinese oil that comes in cheap Chinese springers, that stuff is nauseating. It's no wonder I can't hit targets with a springer and now I realize why.

Where is this Ballistol found or is there an equivalent oil that can be found locally for use on springers?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:02 am 
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Location: United States
They switched from the sheet metal trigger years ago, the new one appears to be powdered metal. It certainly isn't iron, and is surprisingly tough. I have only seen one sheet metal trigger in years and it was on a gun I bought used which was no doubt one of the first few years made. I tried to give it a trigger job but it just can't compare to the newer ones so I tossed it. The new ones are available from Crosman for ~$10US (in the US direct from Crosman), so not sure about you guys. The reason for the high price is they only sell it as the whole trigger assy, but it's nice to have some spare sears.
You can mod the oem solid trigger to use a screw like the soup can deal or the grt, so being a better trigger is turns out much better than the old one and virtually identical to the grt. Then some other simple mods inside like sharpening the rounded sears and such make it even better.
Using the screw is better and safer than the washer mod which can be kinda sketchy. Or if you want to drop the $ then get the grt. I guess it depends on what the new oem trig assy costs you guys and how much you're into doing work. The grt is certainly the easiest, but no way I'm spending that much, especially with multiple guns and the fact I can easily make mine better. Either way I consider the sheet metal one unacceptable so I'd lose it, or maybe my standards are too high, but if they were I wouldn't touch a chinese made Crosman.
I don't know what Pellgun oil is for sure, but I and others suspect it's simply tranny fluid. If so it would be ok to use, but not ideal since it's too thin, plus pretty much everyone has motor oil, even if you have to rob a drop from your dipstick.
How to mod the trigger with a screw is either obvious, or the pix below show the gist of it:
A 3mm screw is best. I can go into more detail if anyone plans on doing it. Sharpening the sears is just how it sounds, but if you do you may require another mod or may end up sketchy like the washer mod.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:45 am 
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Hate to admit but the spring removal mod did not make pulling the trigger any lighter, as I finally had the chance to take a few shots last night. All it did is eliminate the short pull before the break. But it still requires a good amount of force to break. Is my next step looking at polishing the trigger where it contacts the shear? It doesn't seem natural the way it is performing which is taking a toll on accuracy, as one can imagine.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:51 am 
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Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Quote:
Joolz wrote
Thanks for the clarification, I happened to grab the closest thing nearby. Didn't put any of it near the chamber. Seemed fine for the pivot points but then again it is a pretty thin oil. This Ballistol: is this the thick, gooey oil that comes from the factory? Hope it isn't as incredibly smelly as the cheap Chinese oil that comes in cheap Chinese springers, that stuff is nauseating. It's no wonder I can't hit targets with a springer and now I realize why.
Where is this Ballistol found or is there an equivalent oil that can be found locally for use on springers?


Ballistol is not thick and doesn’t come from the factory. It’s the product invented for the German Imperial Army in 1905, specifically for preserving weapons, and since then it’s been used in both World Wars and then by the German Bundeswehr until now and also worldwide including some units of the US Army.
Some people don’t like the smell but for me it is not offensive at all. Ballistol has anise oil as an ingredient which gives that specific smell. It is a very good lubricant and most importantly, the best rust preserving oil IMHO. I shoot blackpowder rifles (you know how corrosive blackpowder is) and use Ballistol as a final oil coat inside the barrel and outside on steel. Not even one rust spot noticed.
It can be absolutely safely used for lubrication/rust preservation on steel air guns because it's benign for seals.
You can buy it online at Ballistol.ca. Plinkercases (Murray) apparently knows one outlet in Toronto where they sell Ballistol. Perhaps, it is the same like the one online. A lot of gun stores carry Ballistol too.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:11 pm 
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Thanks Rav, looks like a good investment, especially if it will help keep the blueing healthy on any gun. I often neglect to wipe clean the barrel after touching it and I fear this may prove costly in the future. Gotta start taking better care of them.

As for my concerns with the trigger mod, this just in: now it works a lot lighter. I don't get it. Could it be that the trigger's force required to break is susceptible to temperature fluctuations? Last night it felt very heavy. Just now I tried and it was a lot lighter. Last night it was a bit cooler than now, as the sun warms up the area where the gun was sitting. Will keep an eye on things and see how temp affects it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:29 pm 
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Location: Eastern Townships
Hi everyone!

If you want to have a lighter trigger but with no play, you can ''un-roll' one coil of the trigger spring and cut and re-bend to the correct lenght and shape. I did it on my Beeman conversion, does work pretty well.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:43 pm 
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fabricate the trigger return spring to the similar shape of original from the safety clip but 1/2 size wire thinner
now you can feel the first and the second stage
replace the sear engagement screw (behind the trigger, if I remember it is 2mm diameter or 2,5) with a longer one and adjust to the desired let off
can polish internals as you go
enjoy the results
parts cost about $0.04 not including labor

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:12 am 
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Location: Thunder Bay
Dr.Fire wrote:
fabricate the trigger return spring to the similar shape of original from the safety clip but 1/2 size wire thinner
now you can feel the first and the second stage
replace the sear engagement screw (behind the trigger, if I remember it is 2mm diameter or 2,5) with a longer one and adjust to the desired let off
can polish internals as you go
enjoy the results
parts cost about $0.04 not including labor


This is my preferred trigger mod for a crosman trigger too. A #4-40 screw works perfectly(pkg of about a dozen at CTC for $1.99). Remove the original and install the new longer #4-40. Be careful. You can adjust the sear to an unsafe condition with this mod. Make sure it passes the bump test. A 3/4" length screw works great. I used a robertson head (#0) screw. A #0 robertson short bit just fits in behind the trigger and makes adjusting easy by fingertip. The plastic holds the screw tight. It doesn't move under recoil.

I like your idea of a lighter spring and keeping the first stage.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:15 am 
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A 4-40 does work but often splits the plastic nut because it's too big. The correct size is 3mm and I'd assume not too hard to find.
The first stage is false, just empty slack, so please don't anyone assume it's a safety margin. If you install a longer screw so the second stage is very short, then it very short at all times. Also know the sears edges are rounded so they're not safe to have it adjusted near the edge because they can slip off easier when the gun is bumped, and even all by themselves just sitting there. So by using a longer screw you still have a 5lb pull that's 20mm long so it feels safe, but the sears could be just a hair away from releasing and just setting the gun down could set it off, or it could go off all by itself.
I always sharpen the sears so they break better, but they're also safer that way. Just know that sharpening the sears also shortens them so the trigger pull will be shorter, but most people see this as a plus since the overlap/pull is way too long. But there are different ways to mod the trigger so combined with the wrong method will likely make them too short, like the bearing mod.
Yet another danger is the G's of dropping the gun on the butt because the heavy solid trigger has some weight to it so it'll pull itself. The oem spring in the trigger blade is no doubt plenty strong enough to prevent this, but the common mod is to remove that spring. If removed the gun can fire much easier when dropped, and even easier still if modded with a bearing or longer screw etc. I know people don't plan on dropping the gun, but it happens, especially with kids.
Just fyi because I want people to be aware of the dangers associated with tinkering with this type of trigger. It's overly safe from the factory so it does has room to fiddle with it, but the common mods out there make it so much easier to fire that it is/can be more or less dangerous. If I'm saying it can be dangerous that's something because many people consider my safety standards to be very low.
Just be aware, and if unsure I can help: chevota at hotmail I've modded many of these triggers and in different ways, plus I have some apart if anyone needs pix or help understanding them. They're not complicated, but blindly modding one part without understanding the remaining parts is risky.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:47 am 
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Chevota, I made that trigger blade that take all the slack off of the trigger travel, but kept the sear engagement and travel real close to the original specs. I, too, am concerned about safety, since sometimes there are children nearby where I go to shoot.

The screw closest to the pivot point remove the slack and get the sear lever about half way of its total travel, and the second screw actuate the sear for firing. There is 7/16'' of total travel at the tip of the trigger blade, and it's incredibly smooth and positive. I sharpened the sear and sear lever square, to get a positive ''lock'' between the parts, they're smooth, but not mirror polished. I ''shock'' tested it , and no accidental firing. Did you ever tried a set-up resembling that? I'd really appreciate to have your opinion.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:56 pm 
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That looks pretty cool. I just use the oem trigger and drill/tap one hole. You can put two screws in them as well, but just one in the middle works fine for me. The solid oem trigger is very tough, or I should say can be tough. The first one I drilled was very difficult and I almost gave up. The second one was similar. Then later an internet friend said his wasn't too hard so I tried again and it was much easier and I haven't had too much trouble since. So at least some are a pita to drill. Either way I'd only try it with a top quality split point bit and be very careful tapping it. The only thing I'd change with yours (aside from making it black) is round the end of the screws so the tip is even and doesn't teeter on the sear. It would also move your pivot point a bit and change the feel, but just a thought. I use little 3mm screws because they have to fit in the trigger like shown in the pix. I'm guessing yours is aluminum? It's probably too much work to make but I suppose you could sell those. Mine, yours, and the grt designs are imo the best and safest as long as they're adjusted correctly. I've seen where people had a grt adjusted to where it was single stage and a hair trigger so really no different than an unsafe washer mod. Another thing is if you remove the plastic nut for the oem adj screw, and deepen the groove in the sear where it contacts the triggers pivot pin it will let the sear swing down further to remove slack. Maybe not needed in your case but fyi. When sharpening the sears it shortens them so doing that mod also allows you to regain that sear overlap.


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