Canadian Airgun Forum

The #1 Community for Airguns in Canada!
It is currently Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:46 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


The Canadian Airgun Forums are a place for people to discuss and learn about airguns and the airgunning sport in Canada. There are lots of discussions about airguns, airgun accessories, reviews, modification and repair information, airgun events, field target and free classifieds!

 

You need to register before you can post: click the register link to proceed. Before you register, please read the forum rules. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own pictures, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free! To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.






Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Help with Gun Selection
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:14 pm
Posts: 267
I am looking for a new Field target gun and I think I have it narrowed down to 2 types.

1) Benjamin Marauder Air Rifle
2) Hammeril Ar-20

I like the maurauder because it has a 10 shot disk. I just don't know which one will give me the more consistent results. Any thoughts from anyone with expierence with these? or is there something else I should be looking at?

_________________
Sig Sauer MCX
Kel-Tec Sub 2000
Pietta Wildcat
S&W 357
SDVE9
Baretta Neos


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm
Posts: 1750
Location: Kingston, ON
The Marauder is right out because they are illegal here in Canada, because of the noise suppressor in the barrel. If you want to go PCP, consider one of the Hatsan AT44 series.
The Hammerli AR-20 is cool looking, no experience with it and haven't seen or read anyting about them. Maybe hard to come by here.. :drinkers:

_________________

Duke ))))----//----------==


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:14 pm
Posts: 267
Thanks I never heard of them, they look pretty interesting. Good to know about the maurader.I thought I saw someone on this board saying they are a gunsmith an modified them for use in Canada.

_________________
Sig Sauer MCX
Kel-Tec Sub 2000
Pietta Wildcat
S&W 357
SDVE9
Baretta Neos


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:05 am
Posts: 368
Location: Maple Ridge, BC
David, if you want a dedicated FT rig, I would suggest the Hammerli AR20FT. They are available at D&L Airgun for $899. Also speak to Robbie (Globalstar66 on this forum). He was the agent for them in South Africa. Another suggestion would be the Air Arms MPR FT available at Airgun Source for around $1050. Any one of those would make for a pretty decent purchase. The only other alternative would be a used Steyr LG100 or LG110, or an Air Arms EV2. Then for much less money, don't rule out the Air Arms S200/CZ200S. Many guys compete very successfully with them, even in the World FT competitions.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:14 pm
Posts: 267
Thanks. My first choice was the AR-20. I would prefer more than 1 shot mag and its pretty heavy, so I think I will have to use a monopod with it.

_________________
Sig Sauer MCX
Kel-Tec Sub 2000
Pietta Wildcat
S&W 357
SDVE9
Baretta Neos


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:14 pm
Posts: 267
The removable tank on the Air Arms S200/CZ200S looks nice, I dont think the AR-20 has that.

_________________
Sig Sauer MCX
Kel-Tec Sub 2000
Pietta Wildcat
S&W 357
SDVE9
Baretta Neos


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:05 am
Posts: 368
Location: Maple Ridge, BC
OttawaDavid wrote:
Thanks. My first choice was the AR-20. I would prefer more than 1 shot mag and its pretty heavy, so I think I will have to use a monopod with it.


Depends on how serious you are about FT. You really don't need a mag, and in fact it is discouraged (safer) in comps. As far as the weight goes, you will have to learn the FT freestyle (sitting) position, as well as kneeling and standing position. One learns to use the weight to your advantage.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:55 am
Posts: 231
Location: England.
OttawaDavid wrote:
The removable tank on the Air Arms S200/CZ200S looks nice, I dont think the AR-20 has that.


Thats how you fill all 10m guns a right pain.

Triggers are naff and will need zero shift curing. They are just cheaply made with a good barrel.
Over here they are about a fifth the price of a Feinwerkbau P800 or Anchutz 9003 ready to go.
Best bit is you can upgrade without having to sell and buy something better.
No one uses multi shot in FT, mags have to be removed before leaving the lane. Then they take time to load.

Better option is a Steyr LG100/110 secondhand, parts are readilly available.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:46 pm
Posts: 244
Location: Ottawa
dhb on this forum uses the AR20FT with great success. He's had it for almost a year now and I can tell you he shoots it very well. I was going to pick one up from Airgun Source but preferred the weight of the Air Arms S400 MPR FT which is a bit lighter. The AR20 is hands down the best deal out there for FT.

_________________
Some people are like a Slinky, they serve no real purpose, but bring a smile to your face if you push them down a flight of stairs!

Air Arms FTP900
Air Arms TX200 MK III
CFSC/CRFSC Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:18 pm
Posts: 559
Location: near Ottawa
When shooting in a proper FT sitting position the weight isn't an issue at all (well, many actually prefer a heavy gun for the stability). The cylinder on the AR20 is unscrewed from the gun from filling. You have to spend 2x - 3x as much money to get a rifle that may outshoot the AR20FT by 1%. For the money it is a great start that will likely never need replacing. The only thing that needed changing on mine was the hamster as the OEM unit is really small. I bought one from JEV on shooting-the-breeze.com but anyone with decent woodworking skills could make one for $20 of materials.

Robbie (Globalstar66) is a wealth of knowledge on the Hammerli (and it seems everything FT related).

_________________
Posting from the edge of the Larose Forest

CFSC/CRFSC Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:40 am
Posts: 87
Location: Calgary
Where do we start....

The AR20FT is a really great rifle for the money. It has a few advantages over the AA MPR's in my opinion - none too serious, but advantages nonetheless.

These are a few of the advantages over other "relatively cheap" FT rifles:
1) It costs less than just about any other FT ready rifle on the market
2) Chassis/stock is pretty much fully adjustable (length of pull, hamster height and placement, cheekpiece)
3) Has fully adjustable trigger
4) It is a regulated rifle with 300 Bar regulator (so no "sweet spot" to learn like the non-regulated rifles)
5) Has a very decent Lothar Walther barrel, and they are VERY accurate.
6) Has a 300 BAR cylinder, so way more shots on a single fill than any other 200 BAR rifle
7) The supplied 300 Bar cylinder is removable. Some people don't like this, but I do. Much easier to remove the cylinder and walk to your dive tank and refill, than taking your whole rifle to your dive tank to refill - also easier to refill just a small cylinder, than to try and "one-handedly" fill the cylinder attached to your rifle while trying to hold the rifle in your arms.... In the UK, the shooters like non-removable cylinders or "quick fills" - in South Africa where I come from, the preference was a removable cylinder. Only downside of removable cylinder is that it could slowly wear out the threads on the rifle's cylinder, but we pretty much have not had ANY such issues over many years of shooting Walther LG300 and Steyr LG100/110 rifles, so not an issue in my opinion.
8) Funnily enough, we never saw any major zero shift issues on the AR20 rifles in South Africa, and in the morning the temp could be 10 degrees C when the shoot started, and 3 hours later at midday, it could be 30+ degrees C.

Yes the AR20FT is a little heavier than the MPR, but the "heavy part" is actually the steel cylinder it comes with. I sold MANY AR20FT rifles with aluminum cylinders which I sold to customers at my COST.

I also sold a LOT of the 10m rifles, and converted the to FT. The 10m rifles cost about the same as the FT version, and comes standard with MUCH lighter aluminum cylinder in the place of the heavier steel one. It also comes with open sights, which we simply removed and put away.

The FT version comes with a really flimsy aluminum rail (10m has no rail included) - problem with the aluminum rail, is it has 30 MOA "slant" built in, and a lot of scopes "run out of turret adjustment", necessitating the rail to be removed anyway.

Only parts needed to convert 10m rifle to FT, is the 16 Joule regulator (cost about EURO 50) and the hammer spring. I supplied these 2 parts at my cost price as well, for those that wanted to do the conversion. And the 10m versions came in a nice Red/Black and Blue/Black painted chassis.

It was a cheaper way to get the "lighter" rifle, as a new aluminum cylinder would easily cost around $250. But the aluminum cylinder makes the weight of the AR20FT a real delight, for those not wanting the "heavier" AR20FT rifle with steel cylinder.

Some shooters at the World's using these AR20FT rifles have ended up in the top 20 in recent years, out-shooting many more expensive rifles.

Nice thing about the AR20 is that its so easy to work on and replace parts. Takes all of 2 minutes to replace the regulator. And anyone can do it, it's that easy. Also easy to replace o-rings etc. So pretty easy to work on and service it yourself.

I sold many, many dozens of these rifles in South Africa (10m and FT versions) and only had to replace ONE faulty regulator, and I had 10 spare regulators in stock for just incase.... Never got to use the other 9. I also did not have a single rifle that was not capable of a 5-shot group of 10mm (centre to centre) or less at 50 meters. And nice thing was, they could shoot relatively crap pellets really accurately.

A lot of shooters in South Africa using the AR20FT rifles, are constantly ending top 10 and even top 3 at regular shooting matches.

There are a few slight "negatives", but at this price, they are hardly worth mentioning....

1) Flimsy scope rail with too much MOA slant built in
2) Plastic grip, cheekpiece and hamster - but a lot of guys changed them out to wooden or laminate wooden parts. Personally, the plastic did not bother me. You get used to it.
3) Small and almost unusable hamster - again easy to make something from aluminum or wood - it just slides onto and screws to the accessory rail underneath the chassis.
4) Heavier weight concerns SOME people - but as Deon mentioned, it could be an advantage. I personally like a heavier rifle, so to me the weight is NOT an issue at all.

Look at this thread I started on the South African airrifle forum about modifications to the AR20 FT rifles.... A lot of "wooden" parts and some others too....

http://www.airrifle.co.za/showthread.ph ... ght=ar20FT

Attached, look at this target. It was shot at 50m from a rest by one of my "customers" back in South Africa. he received the rifle that morning, bolted a scope on and took 4 shots to get it "onto the target" at 50 meters. Then proceeded to shoot two 5-shot groups. Did not even clean the barrel when he took it out of the box. The first 14 pellets after removing it from the box. 4 to "zero" the rifle at 50 meters, and 2 x 5-shot groups from a brand new (uncleaned) rifle using straight from the tim JSB 8.44gr pellets.

The smallest group measured a TINY 6.50mm C-T-C and the larger group was 8.50mm C-T-C.

Outside (side to side) measurement of the small 5-shot group was 11mm and the larger group 13mm.

Well, that's pretty much what I can say about the rifle....
Attachment:
page0001.jpg
page0001.jpg [ 198.61 KiB | Viewed 1641 times ]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:18 pm
Posts: 559
Location: near Ottawa
See?? I said Robbie was very informative! :)

When I bought the Falcon T50 scope from Robbie I ended up ordering the Sportsmatch adjustable mount as the slope built into the OEM rail had me running out of elevation adjustment room.

There has been no sign of POI shift after filling the cylinder with mine. This "problem" may be one of those that exists more on the internet than in the real world.

_________________
Posting from the edge of the Larose Forest

CFSC/CRFSC Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:46 pm
Posts: 244
Location: Ottawa
I can honestly say that if I could do it over again I would have chosen the Hammerli. The MPR stock doesn't fit me as well as I had hoped and adding the cost of re-stocking it with a GinB or something similar means that the AR20FT represented an even better value over the MPR. I could have spent a bit more an bought an EV2 but I'm not convinced that at twice the price it's twice the gun! I will say that the MPR seems to be every bit as accurate as the Hammerli. When I miss it's definitely not the equipment, it's ME. I have a dilemna at the moment, I have to decide on either a new stock for the MPR or change the gun. The Hammerli is really tempting but I kind of like the RAW TM1000 or even, despite the previous comment, the EV2. I also like the Steyr LG but have a hard time wrapping my head around the 3K price tag!!!!
Input from Robbie or other knowledgeable individuals welcomed.

_________________
Some people are like a Slinky, they serve no real purpose, but bring a smile to your face if you push them down a flight of stairs!

Air Arms FTP900
Air Arms TX200 MK III
CFSC/CRFSC Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:40 am
Posts: 87
Location: Calgary
I have quite a bit of experience with most of the rifles you mentioned, except the RAW TM1000.

The TM1000 is a pretty new rifle and only came to market this past year. Harold Rushton in the US bought himself one not too long ago, and is liking it very much.

One thing to bear in mind, is that because it has no barrel "a-frame protection", if you accidentally bump the barrel you will have some major problems - so you need to be extra careful when handling the TM1000.

To me, it's not the prettiest rifle around, but in the end its about getting the job done, not looks. What I do like about the TM1000 is the fact that the barrel is fully free-floated out of the factory - something nobody else offers. This normally takes care of POI shift when the frame warms up and "warps" the barrel when "fixed" by an a-frame.

Also, the price on the TM1000 is pretty decent. It also looks like a fairly simplistic design, so working on it should not be an issue, and with RAW being just down South, makes it easier to get parts and service if needed.

I used to shoot an EV2 (mk3), and although it shot well, I just never fell in love with the rifle. I sold it and bought a Steyr. Then I was appointed sole agent for Walther for South Africa, and decided to support Walther and got an Alutec LG300 Dominator. I loved that gun and liked the looks of it. But the Steyr fit me better so I kept the LG300, and got a new Steyr again.

Just before we moved to Canada, I sold the Steyr and the Walther LG300. I bought a new Steyr LG110 (the new 2011 model) a few months ago.

I also had a Daystate Grand Prix and hated that rifle. It was good looking, but seriously problematic, so I got rid of it again very soon after I bought it.

I have shot the Hammerli Ar20FT rifles a lot and like them for the money. Accurate, and very adjustable and customizable.

If I was on a budget of around $1000, I would certainly buy the Hammerli. For $2000, I would not buy the EV2, but would get the RAW TM1000 and for a $2700+ budget I would again buy the Steyr.

Is the Steyr a better rifle - no, I don't think so, but it has proven itself over and over again the past decade. The RAW is brand new and still unproven. That and the fact that I like the looks on the Steyr more, is what would push me to a Steyr again. But, as mentioned, if budget is an issue, then the Steyr is not the way to go.

I have no clue what the Steyr costs in Canada at all, but you can order one from the Czech Republic (new 2011 model) for EUR 1865 (or Germany for EUR 1949) and get around 19% VAT off because it's being exported outside of the EU. Add to that around EUR200 for freight, and you should be looking at a price of around EUR 1770 (shipping included) - that's around CA$2265.

I am not sure about Canadian Import Duties on airguns, but it might or might not be worthwhile looking into it.

Anyway, because of proximity, I would probably go for the TM1000 when the budget is around the $2000 mark.

ALL or most FT rifles are very capable (and more accurate than we can shoot them) - it's about FIT and BUDGET.

Buy the one you can afford, and choose one that fits you well.

Not sure if that helped a lot, but just my opinion....

Cheers

Robbie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:46 pm
Posts: 244
Location: Ottawa
well, it does help! No matter what I choose I will be the weak link, not the gun. No way to handle the TM1000 so it's hard to gauge the feel of the gun. I held a LG100 in New York and thought it felt great. The Hammerli also has a decent feel to it but after peeking at the link you supplied i would have to find blue laminate goodies for it to drive dhb nuts. Hopefully I can handle a few more at teh SHOT show in January and then make a decision. No matter what I choose the T50 I got from you will be the scope it wears!

_________________
Some people are like a Slinky, they serve no real purpose, but bring a smile to your face if you push them down a flight of stairs!

Air Arms FTP900
Air Arms TX200 MK III
CFSC/CRFSC Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO