Canadian Airgun Forum

The #1 Community for Airguns in Canada!
It is currently Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:50 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


The Canadian Airgun Forums are a place for people to discuss and learn about airguns and the airgunning sport in Canada. There are lots of discussions about airguns, airgun accessories, reviews, modification and repair information, airgun events, field target and free classifieds!

 

You need to register before you can post: click the register link to proceed. Before you register, please read the forum rules. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own pictures, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free! To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.








Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 5:42 pm
Posts: 651
Location: Ontario
rsterne wrote:
Interesting.... The seat area isn't quite enough for the hardness of the Delrin? seal.... The pressure on the plastic is too great and it's extruding from the load.... I'm guessing either a redesign of the cone for more contact area.... or a harder material such as PEEK is needed.... Nothing to do with regulators, but I'm seeing the same thing on a Delrin poppet in my .35 cal Hayabusa at 3000 psi.... to the point the hammer strike isn't enough at that pressure....

Bob


I can always count on you for the proper jargon. And yes, the reg works beautifully but the white material shortens the life of my reg. Hopefully Audrius has changed to a longer lasting white material.

Anyway, I just sent Audrius an e-mail for a replacement part so I'll patiently wait for his response.

Thanks again.

_________________
Air Arms S510 Carbine FAC .22cal
Air Arms S510 Carbine FAC .117cal


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 6845
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
RC wrote:
rsterne wrote:
Interesting.... The seat area isn't quite enough for the hardness of the Delrin? seal.... The pressure on the plastic is too great and it's extruding from the load.... I'm guessing either a redesign of the cone for more contact area.... or a harder material such as PEEK is needed.... Nothing to do with regulators, but I'm seeing the same thing on a Delrin poppet in my .35 cal Hayabusa at 3000 psi.... to the point the hammer strike isn't enough at that pressure....

Bob


I can always count on you for the proper jargon. And yes, the reg works beautifully but the white material shortens the life of my reg. Hopefully Audrius has changed to a longer lasting white material.

Anyway, I just sent Audrius an e-mail for a replacement part so I'll patiently wait for his response.

Thanks again.


The only force the seat should 'see' is the shutoff force based on the area and feed pressure. That force will be very small with that tiny port. Damage to the Delrin occurs when a reg leaks and the output pressure creeps above setpoint. OR the adjuster is screwed down hard onto the seat.
These regs are force balance systems so when you work it out you will see that a properly functioning regulator will not destroy itself or damage the plastic seat part.
Flip the button over if you can.
Walter....

_________________
Image
Walter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 5:42 pm
Posts: 651
Location: Ontario
Can't flip it.

I did try to fill the hole with contact cement, resin and other types of glue and lightly smooth it out. All efforts useless. The glue would just pop off.

_________________
Air Arms S510 Carbine FAC .22cal
Air Arms S510 Carbine FAC .117cal


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 6845
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
RC wrote:
Can't flip it.

I did try to fill the hole with contact cement, resin and other types of glue and lightly smooth it out. All efforts useless. The glue would just pop off.


Check down inside the piston for a hole to pop it out. I make my pistons so a pin punch can pop the button out. Possibly Audrius does that.

_________________
Image
Walter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 8979
Location: Coalmont BC
Yeah I guess you're right, Walter.... the forces cancel when the seat is just barely open (and the piston still moving), so as long as there is NO leak you should hardly even see a mark on the Delrin.... Of course although the force is tiny, the area of the seat is correspondingly tiny, and therefore more likely to cause a dent.... Is there any reason you couldn't use (for example) a 1mm hole and a 5mm seat OD?.... just wondering....

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


Last edited by rsterne on Wed May 22, 2013 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 6845
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
rsterne wrote:
Yeah I guess you're right, Walter.... the forces cancel when the seat is just barely open (and the piston still moving), so as long as there is NO leak you should hardly even see a mark on the Delrin....

Bob



:-)

cheers

_________________
Image
Walter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 8979
Location: Coalmont BC
Added a question^

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 6845
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
rsterne wrote:
Yeah I guess you're right, Walter.... the forces cancel when the seat is just barely open (and the piston still moving), so as long as there is NO leak you should hardly even see a mark on the Delrin.... Of course although the force is tiny, the area of the seat is correspondingly tiny, and therefore more likely to cause a dent.... Is there any reason you couldn't use (for example) a 1mm hole and a 5mm seat OD?.... just wondering....

Bob


no reason at all. I use a 1/16" drill and a seat that is coned from that out to say 0.080" diameter then back. Break the edge with steel wool and good to go.
Closing force is higher but works fine as the piston is 0.650"

_________________
Image
Walter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 8979
Location: Coalmont BC
I was thinking of a very wide (0.080") flat seat (to spread the load) with a small hole.... hole 0.040", OD of seat 0.200".... or would that not seal as well?....

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 6845
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
rsterne wrote:
I was thinking of a very wide (0.080") flat seat (to spread the load) with a small hole.... hole 0.040", OD of seat 0.200".... or would that not seal as well?....

Bob


IMO a near sharp edge produces the best seal which in turn stops the closing force from climbing.

Walter...

_________________
Image
Walter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 8979
Location: Coalmont BC
Thanks, Walter.... much appreciated....

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 1029
Location: Southern canada
So I gave the orings on the regulator greasing with Dow Corning 111 and worked it gently down the air cylinder. I wasn't sure how deep to go without over traveling down the tube, so I just went far enough so that I could insert the spacer. Once I had the spacer in I just pushed the reg until the spacer was close to the bottom of the threads, then in went the valve body. Gave it a good snugging then started to fill it using my hill pump, this is where things didn't go as planned.

I inserted the fill nozzle and started pumping, within 2 min I was hitting 200 bar! I knew something was wrong so I bleed the pump line and removed the fit nozzle from the cylinder. I could hear small amounts of air coming out the fill port, I then pushed the valve stem and it gave slight air sound then the valve had no closing pressure. Hummmmm!

Can the gauge housing be removed from the cylinder?

_________________
Benjamin Classic
Benjamin Trail NP
Webley Alecto .177 (Custom)
Smith & Wesson 686
Hatsan AT44MW-10 .177
Daisy 953S


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 1029
Location: Southern canada
I disassembled the air cylinder tonight, removed the valve and spacer but couldn't extract the regulator with the tools I had at hand. So I reassembled the air cylinder and tried it on the pump again, and this time I hit 46 bar before stopping to allow pump cooling.

Question to those who know, how tight should I tighten the valve body to the cylinder?

I also turned the regulator down to its minimum setting of 90bar, since my major complaint about pcp rifles is noise I want a descent balance between noise and velocity.

_________________
Benjamin Classic
Benjamin Trail NP
Webley Alecto .177 (Custom)
Smith & Wesson 686
Hatsan AT44MW-10 .177
Daisy 953S


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 1029
Location: Southern canada
Ok just hit 125bar so I figured I do a leak test bar hitting full pressure. So I bleed the pump hose and removed the fill nozzle, and immediately air was pissing out. Ggrrrrrrrrr am I missing something here? I'm guessing theirs a check valve in there that's not seating and or the seal or seat is damaged. Can this gauge/end cap be removed for rebuilding?

_________________
Benjamin Classic
Benjamin Trail NP
Webley Alecto .177 (Custom)
Smith & Wesson 686
Hatsan AT44MW-10 .177
Daisy 953S


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 1029
Location: Southern canada
Well did some surfing this morning and came across a video that showed me what I'm up against, seems like a simple job. Now just to figure out how I'm going to remove the gauge/fill cap from the tube without doing any damage. So now it's time to start disassembling the front end of the tube, and I'm hoping an old employer has the orings I'll be looking for.

This sure has been an interesting experience, before long I will have done a complete rebuild on this rifle. As much I get sick of working on machines because of my job, I'm really loving this overhaul project of at44-10. I just hope when the moment of truth does finally come, the gun performs the way I'm intisipating it to.

Thanks again to all those how have and will have helped achieve my goals with this gun!

_________________
Benjamin Classic
Benjamin Trail NP
Webley Alecto .177 (Custom)
Smith & Wesson 686
Hatsan AT44MW-10 .177
Daisy 953S


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO