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 Post subject: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Posts: 117
I am tying to blue up some chrome moly 4130 tube using vans rust blue solution. I realise I am not goin to get an Air-Arms or HW blue, but I would like at least black. The best I can get is a very dark grey colour......!! Any tips anyone please, or shall I take it to a gunsmith for some hot blueing action!!??


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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
It takes many coats and cardings. If you want a smooth, glassy finish, then card with 4-ought or 5 ought steel wool between coats. (0000, or 00000) I don't think you have to boil it between coats, only after the last one, but you should check on that. I'll check with my bro when he gets home. makes sure the bore is sealed at both ends-you do not want to rust the bore, chamber or muzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Thanks daryl. Some info of your bro would be appreciated. When you say boil? Do you mean boil in vans solution, or in water?


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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:19 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
Boiling in water (maybe distilled water?) changes the brown colour from the rusting process to blue/black colour. That is why it's called rust bluing.

The solution is wiped on with a cloth wad dampened with the solution - no runs. runs will or can leave streaks instead of a smooth, even colour.

The problem being, that I cannot remember if it's only boiled once, or after each coat.

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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Location: Canada
I've been boiling after each rust cycle in distilled water. Carding HARD with OOOO DEGREASED (use acetone, and do it outside...don't smoke :wink: ) steel wool.

Just enough solution in a bit of rag to dampen the surface...don't rub...once over and leave it.

Did the solution not come with instructions???

This might help...have more links if needed. :)

http://www.laurelmountainforge.com/barr ... n_inst.htm

Curious as to how many "cycles" you've done thus far....a clear pic would be good too.....we likes da pictures. :rolleyes:

Al


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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:51 pm 
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Sounds good.....when i wipe the component in the solution in tuns a deep, rich blue. it comes off when i rinse in cold tap water to neutralise it. maybe boiling 'sets' the blue?


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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:19 pm 
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:?
I know you called it "rust blue"....but the only vans bluing solution that I find is a cold blue...a different process all together.

Have a link to the product?

These are the instructions for the Vans cold blue...

http://mpi.websitewizard.com/Instruction-Sheets

Will keep looking.

Al

Edit:

Is this what you're using???

http://www.vansgunblue.com/


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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:53 pm 
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Al.

Thanks for reply.

Yes, that is the exact stuff I am using.

I am doing everything as per instructions, apart from neutralising in oil. I degrease, then dip the component for 3 mins. This leaves a nice deep blue on the surface. I have been neutralising in water and not oil.

I will try a petroleum based oil tomo as per instructions.

:wink: :wink: :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:59 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
If you want a good, proper finish - you need to use a real browning solution, not cold blue. There is no carding, nor boiling with cold blue.
The best cold blue I've used, and it's only for covering scratches, etc, is Birchwood Casey's paste in the tube. Rub it in hard, over and over and then I rince in cold water, rubbing it with a patch of cloth, dry it, then douse it in WD40 spray. the water seems to help set the bluing rather than simply covering and rubbing in oil.

Cold blues do not protect well at all and wear off quickly & they stink (usually).

Sorry, :oops: I misunderstood what you were using when I replied with rust bluing methods up above. The terminology "Rust Blue" threw me. Rust bluing is a lot different than cold blue. I was hoping Al would chime in - good thing. It's difficult to discuss Cadillacs, if the other person is talking about Suszuki Sprites. That analogy is a fair comparison of rust blue compared to cold blue. You will be much happier with real rust bluing, than with hot caustic bluing salts finish, which the gun smith's do. This is not meant as a slight - merely as information to help, with a vivid, memorable comparison.

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Daryl


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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:31 pm 
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Daryl wrote:
Cold blues do not protect well at all and wear off quickly & they stink (usually)..


This was my experience as well...could get it looking good, but it doesn't stay that way for long.

Regards,

Al


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 Post subject: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:11 am 
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4130 can be extremely difficult to colour. If you look online you'll find that even the pros have a tough time with this alloy. It seems to vary even from piece to piece. I've tried a lot of rust bluing solutions on 4130 tube and more often than not it will "bloom" meaning an area will go a plum colour.
Oxpho blue will produce a beautiful black chrome finish on 4130 and in my experience its extremely hard wearing.... Possibly the toughest of any blue depending on the application technique.

The downside is its extremely tough to obtain now. You need to know someone in the US that will order it for you. Brownells will reject any order of this product purchased with a CDN credit card.

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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:34 am 
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Sean - Oxpho blue is a cold blue solution, IIRC.

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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:40 am 
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Daryl wrote:
Sean - are you talking about rust bluing, or cold blue?


First part of the post was pertaining to classic rust blue.

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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:52 am 
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Daryl wrote:
Sean - Oxpho blue is a cold blue solution, IIRC.


Yes Oxpho is a "cold blue" but it is unlike any other off the shelf cold blue in that is is very tough and durable. There are several methods detailed for the application and if a person uses the abrasion method the finish is superior to hot tanking.

I tested two pieces, one hot tanked and one blued with oxpho and abrasion according to Brownells claims. And surprisingly the finish is superior with the oxpho and the colour is better than the glaring blue of hot tank.

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 Post subject: Re: vans blue solution
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:44 pm
Posts: 160
A bolt with three turns of oxpho


Attachments:
Photo 2013-06-15 11 49 33 AM.jpg
Photo 2013-06-15 11 49 33 AM.jpg [ 28.54 KiB | Viewed 589 times ]

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