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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 6845
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
Would you be able to post a pic of what you are calling a breech block?

I am unaware of such a piece in the Hatsan.

Walter....

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:58 am
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Had a AT44. and could not get it to Group.
So tried to research the Mag loading, low and behold, everyone had problems with "Flyers loading from the Mag".
Tried RWS(Variety), JSB(Variety), Crosman and Daisy, no difference.
If the Rifle is locked down in the Rifle Rest and load by hand, it was a One Hole Affair, every time.
Install the Mag and loaded the pellets, proud, even or slightly in, flyers Galore.
Put in a email to Hastan Support, after a bit of back and forth and a couple of "Treats".
The Support person(in Turkey) wanted a bit of time to research, after two weeks, got a email stating that the Center hole of the Mag(Part that rotates on the pin) may be too tight in tolerance and should be opened up. But could state how large to open up the said hole.
So long story, got rid of the AT44..Did not sell it to anyone. Too honest to.
Should have turned it in then to "Coppers" and get a Camera.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6082
Location: P.G. B.C.
Interesting, I've seen videos on making larger pivot pins for the magazine pivot pin, claiming the hole in the magazine was too large and that sloppiness was causing inaccurate lineup, tilted pellets and thus overall inaccuracy of fire. So - the fellow turned not only new pivot rods, but a new feed bolt at well. My BT65 Hatsan 10 shot rotary magazine rifle seems to be a good one, as-is Walters. Gord's AT44, magazine fed .22 also shoots well, as does his BT65 in .25. Out shooting it yesterday - one holing it for 5 and 10 shot groups, outdoors in variable wind that was giving me fits with the HW97 at 30yards -an exceptionally accurate rifle.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Southern canada
Voltar, the breech block is probably called the receiver, the square block that contains the action.

So I've made a new bushing for the probe, I reduced the clearance about 0.010" and installed it with no huge changes. With a few changes to the bushings dimensions ive minimized most the wobble on the installed magazine. I'm starting tomwonder if this is a barrel issue! How does one check the barrel? Are the LW barrel worth the purchase, I've read mixed reviews?

This gun has amazing build quality, everything lines up perfectly in in the lower tube. Nothing in the lower tube is showing any sighs of wear, I'm starting wonder if this gun was ever used by its previous owner.

So one thing I can not check is the velocity and velocity consistency, since my big chrony doesn't do will indoors. Could my regulator be acting up? It groups RWS wadcutters nicely but doesn't like JSB domers.

As much as this is very frustrating, it's definitly be fun. I'm learning how every piece of this rifle functions, and where all the seal are located. One part I'm not too sure about is the little tuning fork looking linkage the is found between the receiver and lower tube.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate everyone's opinions and wisdom. I'd be a lot more frustrated in I didn't have this forum.

A HUGE thanks to SniperDan, he been helping via email.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:14 pm
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Location: South of a Border!
Tuning fork is a hammer de-bouncer, a few have broken, not required for gun to function. Check Walmart or similar for led puck lights, shut off any indoor fluorescent lights and place puck lights on top of sunshades on chrony.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
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Location: Southern canada
Thanks Ralphtonka, that was an excellent lead for me. I measured the mag and got .430 from pellet centre to mag pin centre. So I measured the probe to mag pin and subtracted half the diameter of each pin and got .4205, that's a difference of 0.09. This is an issue for sure! I'll drill the mags centre hole out to 3/16 ( .185), that will put closer to about .0025" misalignment. Well I'll have to sacrifice a magazine for this shot in he dark idea.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:39 pm 
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So keep us posted on the Drilling out of the Mag.
The Mag. are not too expensive.
If that is the Fix, Hastan should have sent out to the retailers a Fix.
Or a couple of Mag. with a recall.
I did not have any machine tools and did not want to try and do the deed with a hand drill.

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Arsenal..
Kraft Marshmallow Pump and Shoot Rifle.
GoodYear Gatling Gun rubber-band shooter.
PEI Potato PCP Rifle.

Glass ..12" Dobsonian Reflector.
Shooting for the Stars.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
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Location: Southern canada
Well I drilled the mag out to .185, I must say in not sold if it helped any but it appears (so far) my wadcutters are shooting tighter, but nothing changed with the JSB pellets. The mystery continues!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm
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Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
DO NOT DRILL THE MAGAZINE!!!!!!
That is not your problem
Remove the barrel and push pellets through looking closely at the skirts
Any smearing is trouble
Likely the transfer port burr

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
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Location: Southern canada
Drilling the mag out to .185 has reduced the resistance on the lever during loading, this shows on the paper. Maybe I'm just shooting better but my groups with RWS wadcutters has tightened up to about 3/8 instead of half.

If this barrel had a burr at the transfer port wouldn't that damaged every pellet?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:58 am
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Walter, do you think that Hastan sent out, over hundreds of barrels with a transfer port bur?
Because for over two months, feed all variety of pellets by "hand" and it shoots, Stackers.
Using a wooden plug and a brass rod, push through six JSB Wadd cutters through barrel and nothing, just nice rifling.
But load up the Mag. and "Swear to the Guy up stairs" was going to do what some people do to Golf Clubs, Wrap a Tree.

Had a QB78 .177 barrel that could not hit the side of a Barn, much less the door.
Push through a couple of wadd cutters and you could feel, the pellet go free, grabs, go free till muzzle.
Inspect the pellet on exit and there was only "Rifling on one side of the pellet".

Anyway, That is when I got the Phone Number and the email address of the lead Hastan Support Guru.
Yes, had a couple lessons over Skype of him, instructions of how to load a Mag.
That is when, the plug was pulled and threats of going ape-mess on all airgun forum.
Then he asked for two weeks to research.
The rest is History..

_________________
President and CEO of Procrastinator Unlimited.

Arsenal..
Kraft Marshmallow Pump and Shoot Rifle.
GoodYear Gatling Gun rubber-band shooter.
PEI Potato PCP Rifle.

Glass ..12" Dobsonian Reflector.
Shooting for the Stars.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 6845
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
The first thing I suspect on any airgun is the transfer port.
I feel your pain as my .BT65 22cal was a shotgun.
Biggest improvement was bigger looser orings on the mags. (Thanks peterdulux)
Finally gave up with 2" groups at 25yds and bought a new LW barrel for it.
Seems better but need to test it more asap.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
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Location: P.G. B.C.
Thanks for that suggestion, Walter. I might test larger O -rings myself, just because. Before modding the stock, I had absolutely NO complaint about my .177's accuracy with a variety of pellets. I expect single round bug holes at 25 yards, again - Hatsan barrel.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Southern canada
Wow if I new these rifles had so many issues, I would have some cash at the time and bought something else. Oh well!

Things I'm wondering about that might be affecting accuracy

- design of the firing chamber ( I slide a pellet in the breech end, it sounds like it slides around a lot) if I only had rods long enough to push a pellet threw

- barrel design, the barrel is suspended in the barrel channel by the use of orings. Do the set screw force the barrel into bad alignment? Maybe I should slide the barrel into its channel, just as orings enter maybe I should shim top and bottom to help keep things centre.

- breech and probe design, the probe measure out at .175" and isn't a .177 pellet .177? Is the pellet hitting the oring with a really tight tolerance. Shouldn't the probe be larger then the pellet, so that the oring is larger then the pellet. Once the large part of the probe enters the breech, it seals into the oring.

- pellet fit in the mag, I wonder this because the only pellets that shoot nice fit tight in the mag.

Thanks guys, I'm so glad I'm a CAF member! Lol

This is greatest and worst rifle I've encountered to date.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Southern canada
Well I finally got a nice group with the JSB 10.3gr this morning! I loaded the magazine ifferently, once the pellets were in the mag I flip in over and pushed the head back down until I hit resistance. It maybe a fluk but I got a group roughly 1/2 at 26'. I'll try this procedure gain tonight, another thing I noticed right away was the smoothness of the loading sequence.

I just ordered the slow speed valve stem, I need to get more shots per fill as I work with this gun. I oly have the hill pump, and in this heat I can burn up in the central air.

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Benjamin Trail NP
Webley Alecto .177 (Custom)
Smith & Wesson 686
Hatsan AT44MW-10 .177
Daisy 953S
Crosman 760


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