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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
I'm becoming tempted to just order some polyurethane rod and machine my own, difficult though that may be. Looking for this seal at Pyramid I see they only have the whole seal kit option, can't just buy the piston seal (which is listed on a credit card-only site in the States for $4.95 - and I don't use a credit card), and it's $24.95. Which is bad enough for a seal, but I'd pay it... only shipping is another $21.55! $46.50 for a piston seal, which is going to soften and start leaking within a year? Good grief. There's got to be some supplier in Canada, or at least someone somewhere who will take PayPal and sell just the seals. I'd like to order 5 or 6 of the things just to have them on hand and avoid this hassle again, but where to find them? Any members have some to sell? Any machinists making them?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
X2 Gerald.
My "newly" used 46M didn't come with a spare set of seals. I do have a friend who visits me every other month from Tacoma, WA who I have bring up eBay purchases and stuff I can't get shipped here. Nothing ILLEGAL, just stuff that is to small in price to justify shipping.

So what I am saying is I need a spare set of seals too. If you can find a reasonable price plus shipping, let me know and I will order two sets and have them sent to him. Now for the catch! I know you make instruments for a living and I am trying to find a nice piece of wood to make a set of wood right hand grips for the 46M. I don't want the wood for free, just at a fair price.

Also, if someone were to send me the seals I could try to machine some from nylon or delrin.

Thanks!

_________________
-Rick
Pardini K10
Brocock Concept .22
3 Custom Crosman 2260
Benjamin Discovery .22 w/Joe Hickey stock!
Crosman 150 pistol .22
4 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22
Mrodair CP-1M .22 and .177


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:14 pm
Posts: 756
Location: South of a Border!
I would take a spare seal, I am sure there are lots who would.

Darren

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Daisy 188 "Repeater" and
a Detuned at44


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
rrdstarr wrote:
X2 Gerald.

No 'l', just 2 'r's, as in 'Gerard'. Not offended, it just kind of jumps out at me weirdly. Like 'Gerry' or something.
rrdstarr wrote:
So what I am saying is I need a spare set of seals too. If you can find a reasonable price plus shipping, let me know and I will order two sets and have them sent to him. Now for the catch! I know you make instruments for a living and I am trying to find a nice piece of wood to make a set of wood right hand grips for the 46M. I don't want the wood for free, just at a fair price.

I'll keep looking. I found a place offering them for $4.95 this morning - the credit card place - but now I can't find it again, seems they stopped listing the seals since this morning. Amazon has them for something like $38 plus shipping. Whatever, I'll keep looking and get back to you if I find something not insane. I emailed D&L this morning on a thin hope, but they don't list any Baikal parts on their site so I doubt it.
rrdstarr wrote:
Also, if someone were to send me the seals I could try to machine some from nylon or delrin.

Seems to me both of those would be too hard for an SSP. If it were a springer then sure, if one were to feather the 'parachute' out thin enough and deep enough to grab air on the speedy release of the spring. But the stroke is so slow when cocking an SSP that there's no deformation due to pressure until near the end of the stroke, so the plastic/rubber has to be very flexible I think and press quite firmly against the cylinder wall. Hence the soft-ish native seal on the 46m with rather thick leading edge on the part outside the groove. It fails eventually due to that constant pressure with the wall - it's always under load just sitting there as it's slightly larger than the cylinder. So I was looking at this stuff:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-DIA-x-12-URET ... 5640d1a5d8
I'm guessing it'd be murder to machine, needing razor sharp tools on a lathe. I've got a TAIG but no appropriate cutters for that kind of plastic. Besides, once one face or the other is cut you'd have to part it off, then somehow chuck the finished face true to then turn the other face. Since the seal is very hollow and flexible with no through-hole, I don't quite see how it could be done. Rather looks like a part one would have to cast.

Teflon wouldn't do it either. No spring to it, would deform right away and just let air go by. Perhaps an O-ring mod to the native piston? It's adjustable for depth, so maybe one could turn a groove into it near the head then adjust the piston perhaps 1/4" or so closer to the valve to compensate for lack of a seal? You'd have to cut off the retaining mushroom thing on the piston head of course... which is kind of committing to this mod. Not something I'd want to dive into unless there were no sensible source of seals available.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
Just heard back from Kelley at D&L. They do have the whole Baikal 46m seal kit available. It's $32 plus S&H. Hmmmm.... well at least they're local here in BC and everybody likes them. I wrote back asking about shipping and handling cost. Kelley replies with $6.95 to Vancouver plus $4.19 in sales tax, totalling $43.14 for one set of seals. Of which I only really need the piston seal. Apparently that one seal isn't an option to purchase alone.

I emailed Baikal Canada as well. So far no answer.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
Sorry Gerard!!! Peope do it constantly to my wife's name Hayley. Even my Mom misspelled it the first five years we were married!

Baikal is a little slow, usually two days for a response. You just need a part number and model number.
Let me know if you wanna do a group buy! You can send me cash in mail!

_________________
-Rick
Pardini K10
Brocock Concept .22
3 Custom Crosman 2260
Benjamin Discovery .22 w/Joe Hickey stock!
Crosman 150 pistol .22
4 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22
Mrodair CP-1M .22 and .177


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
Like I said, not offended at all, so no need for apologies. My brother has it worse anyway; he's got a 'j' in his first name that sounds like a 'y' (same as in our Croatian surname) and pretty much nobody ever gets that one right.

As for Baikal being slow I'm not worried. The 46m is just my backup pistol anyway. But it'd be nice to have a source of seals for when it does stop working completely. When the first one failed it just failed, one shot to the next it was suddenly leaking air on pumping and no pellet flying out. There must be a source of these things with pricing more appropriate to the nature of the seal. It's not a complicated part, probably costs a few cents to make. Hey, anyone here read Russian?
http://www.e-kombat.ru/661-manzheta-izh-46.html
The Google translation seems inconsistent, as in it sort of starts out translating... but then the script doesn't work so I can't add items to the shopping cart as I can in Russian. Trying to initiate an account I can't get a translation of the various input box titles so I can't tell for sure which is which. But it seems the seals are 100 Rubles each, or about $3.20 according to a currency exchange site. Even if shipping were double that when ordering a bunch it seems a great deal.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
I think this is the parent company?
http://imzcorp.com/en/company/55.html

_________________
-Rick
Pardini K10
Brocock Concept .22
3 Custom Crosman 2260
Benjamin Discovery .22 w/Joe Hickey stock!
Crosman 150 pistol .22
4 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22
Mrodair CP-1M .22 and .177


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
I guess so. No sign of parts on the imzcorp site though. Seems likely they'd prefer not to be bothered with orders from individuals, as they likely sell only to distributors.

Sorry I didn't answer regarding grip wood Rick. I don't have a lot to choose from. Mostly just use maple and spruce. I made my Pardini grip out of curly maple but it's not exactly a user friendly sort of wood to carve, grabbing the knife at every turn and tending to chip out a lot. I am quite used to carving it on instruments but with the complex curves of a grip I found it a challenging wood. I'd like to hunt down a really dense piece of dark walnut burl next time I make a grip. Some grips made of that look just amazing. Like this thing:

Attachment:
Pardini carved grip.jpg
Pardini carved grip.jpg [ 61.49 KiB | Viewed 521 times ]


I'm probably going to have a major failing of willpower soon and buy a Pardini K12... so I'll probably be going grip wood shopping soon, as the grip will likely be a bit of a joke. I struggled for the better part of a year to use a large Rink but just couldn't get used to such a small grip. My hand isn't stable unless there's significant volume in the palm, and I hate putty. So while I'm on that wood hunt I'll keep an eye out for interesting piece big enough for a couple or a few grips. Perhaps one of the Windsor Plywood locations, or maybe PJ White will have something in a dusty corner somewhere. I'll let you know if I find anything. Meantime I have a couple of chunks of curly maple of suitable size, but as I said, not really great fun for carving. A rotary tool just tears that stuff up, makes for a LOT of sanding and scraping to get to solid wood through the chips and fuzz after a Dremel.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
Gerard!
Whatever you recommend would be great! I'll cover all the costs of your search, and basic inletting. I'll pay for your time if you have it!

_________________
-Rick
Pardini K10
Brocock Concept .22
3 Custom Crosman 2260
Benjamin Discovery .22 w/Joe Hickey stock!
Crosman 150 pistol .22
4 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22
Mrodair CP-1M .22 and .177


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
Basic inletting? What's that? For the searching, that's just what I'll be doing anyway. I really want to find a block of nice grip wood, something to satisfy my occasional impulsive grip carving episodes for a few pistols to come. While the grip I made for the K10 is wonderful to use I feel like if I'm splurging on a new pistol I will want to improve still further on the fitting, in new wood. And the K10 might just stay on as my backup pistol since it seems I can't find a nice old K58 to fill that role, and frankly even with the many modifications and reduced weight my 46m doesn't really compare for shooting enjoyment to a Pardini. I'll hang onto that of course, for a plinker. Anyway, what's basic inletting?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
Just inletting the gun. I would do the outside to fit my Mongo hands.

My favourite I had to sell, because the barrel was under 4", was my Walther OSP In .22 short. The gun and i were synched! Put it on like a glove! Loved it! Damn near cried when I had to sell it. Had the .32 kit with it.

_________________
-Rick
Pardini K10
Brocock Concept .22
3 Custom Crosman 2260
Benjamin Discovery .22 w/Joe Hickey stock!
Crosman 150 pistol .22
4 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22
Mrodair CP-1M .22 and .177


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
Might possibly squeeze in a little grip block inletting I suppose, if you wanted to get the pistol to me. As in come over to Vancouver sometime and bring it when I have some free bench time. Not a lot of that lately. I've got a few restorations on the go and am just beginning a commissioned doublebass, besides the usual steady stream of smaller repair requests, so spare time even for practicing shooting is hard to come by. I'd need to talk with you about your preferred grip angles, both cant and tilt (pitch and yaw?), as drilling and carving the mortise to the correct angle can be quite tricky. Anyway, my email's on my website - luthier.ca - if you want to keep in touch about that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
Did you ever get a response from IZH Canada about your piston seal, Gerard?
Think I will get a complete set sent to my Army SF buddy in Tacoma as he is coming up the end of August for a drinking visit! :drinkers: I can easily add another set if you wish from Pyramyd Air.

_________________
-Rick
Pardini K10
Brocock Concept .22
3 Custom Crosman 2260
Benjamin Discovery .22 w/Joe Hickey stock!
Crosman 150 pistol .22
4 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22
Mrodair CP-1M .22 and .177


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
No reply so far and I'm not counting on it. I've ordered the 95 durometer polyurethane and will have a try at machining it. Have to make a couple of custom tools for that but my TAIG lathe should be up for the job. A foot of PU should give me lots of room for beta versions before I get a working seal. And I'll find out if 95 is too hard or not. So for now, thanks, but I'll hold off on the insanely overpriced commercial version. Considering the $4 price from that Russian site I'm inclined to boycott anyone charging more than $10 for this seal. It's just obvious profiteering. No offence meant towards D&L... but yeah, that's just a really big price for a really simple and cheap part.


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