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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:28 pm
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Hi Guys, I recently bought a Crosman Nitro Venom Dusk, from walmart, I do not currently have my pal so this one is 495 fps.

However, my original plan was to got for the course/exam mid next month, so I was wondering where and how can I upgrade the venom to 1200/900 fps?

I searched a little bit and found no info, well I did see someone mention "upgrade kit", and I tried googling lots of stuff but none of them had anything useful. I would really appreciate any help, because if I cant upgrade/find out how to upgrade the fps after I acquire my pal I am going to return this gun, and instead just wait until I do receive my license and buy the 1200fps one.

Any help is appreciated?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:56 am 
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Location: Okanagan,BC
Hi - welcome to the CAF!

You might want to introduce yourself; then we can better understand what you are about.

There are upgrade kits which are available from several of our wonderful sellers.

:)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:04 pm 
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This, however if your plan is to upgrade it anyway and you are about to get your license, might as well wait to save the extra cost.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Location: Belleville, Ontario.
I tap the bleeder hole with 3/16" thread, used a set screw with some lock-tite. Cut off the excess set screw with a rotary tool an bobs your uncle. No kit needed.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:51 pm 
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They have a weaker spring, don't they?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Location: Belleville, Ontario.
The Venom Dusk's have the same gas spring as the higher velocity models. The difference being the bleeder hole in the piston.

However on the Benjamin Trail NP they made some slight changes. The piston is longer to shorten stroke and reduce recoil. This is why the Benji models that are high velocity are the XL versions. Basically I think its Crosmans way of dealing with the bleeder hole fill, and the inacurracy complaints from the high velocity Dusk's. When you get the xl the gas spring is bigger, and the piston equally so.

If you really wanna step up velocity, try fitting a venom piston to a benji xl. If it'll cock it'll go pop. Fit it with the .177 barrel and look out. The trade off... a pellet gun that kicks like a .308 and has football sized groupings at 3 inches. :)

Im actually thinking of outfitting my venom with a trail piston for tuning purposes. I ordered some custom stainless gas springs so I can control my velocity better. The shorter stroke from the piston with a higher grade gas spring should help recoil and keep my velocity up.

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Winchester 1911 by Daisy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:48 pm 
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rawuol wrote:
The Venom Dusk's have the same gas spring as the higher velocity models.


Not true- the "detuned" rifles have less pressure in the strut. I suspect someone somewhere pulled struts out of rifles and saw the numbers on it as being the same and assumed this was indicative of the fill pressure- they are not.

Use the strut from a detuned unit, fill your piston hole, and chrony it- it will be too low (i.e. 600-ish fps in a .22 rifle, not 700-ish)

There appear to be a couple of recent "experts" out and about the country lately (and I'm not suggesting rawuol is one of these- I have no idea) who learned all they know by disassembling one or two rifles and looking at parts diagrams and making many assumptions, not tests. It's if/when such "experts" start spreading this "knowledge" that people will not get what they expect if they follow such advice. This occurs every couple of years and it's better to point it out in the online forums that me trying to explain it to everyone who comes to me via email with inaccurate ideas.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:23 am 
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AirGunEric wrote:
rawuol wrote:
The Venom Dusk's have the same gas spring as the higher velocity models.


Not true- the "detuned" rifles have less pressure in the strut. I suspect someone somewhere pulled struts out of rifles and saw the numbers on it as being the same and assumed this was indicative of the fill pressure- they are not.

Use the strut from a detuned unit, fill your piston hole, and chrony it- it will be too low (i.e. 600-ish fps in a .22 rifle, not 700-ish)

There appear to be a couple of recent "experts" out and about the country lately (and I'm not suggesting rawuol is one of these- I have no idea) who learned all they know by disassembling one or two rifles and looking at parts diagrams and making many assumptions, not tests. It's if/when such "experts" start spreading this "knowledge" that people will not get what they expect if they follow such advice. This occurs every couple of years and it's better to point it out in the online forums that me trying to explain it to everyone who comes to me via email with inaccurate ideas.
While I wouldn't call myself an "expert" I have a little experience with Crosman Springers. You could be correct about the gas spring, this is definately true about the Trail NP series(detuned non xl versions). In my experience however, this is not the case with the Venom. The detuned crosman gas spring is only found in the Non xl versions of Trails so far from what I've come across. I do some work on airguns in the area, been lucky enough to work on a few these, again wouldnt call myself an expert.

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Winchester 1911 by Daisy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:56 am 
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Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
@rawoul
The Trail and XL are two completely different rifles.
Which of those two is the Venom similar?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:29 pm 
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As Walter indicated, the NP XL and the NP are completely different rifles, and used different struts.

The NP (not XL) and the Venom are the same platform.

It is always possible (the regular NP's and the Venom's are assembled in China) that a few rifles got the wrong strut- but this would have been by factory error- Crosman only does a very sporadic random check (and maybe doesn't do them at all anymore on models that have been around for a couple years or more) on the imported product to ensure it meets the specs it supposed to.

Let me give another example of factory errors/variance; a couple weeks ago. someone emails wanting the piston from the Trail NP, but NOT the Venom. And, the NP piston is more desirable because it's "shorter" (it's not shorter) and makes for a smoother shooting rifle. I email back and say the information they have obtained is not correct, they are the same unit in both rifles (and did not address the concept of shorter/longer pistons otherwise). The response was "you are unprofessional for criticizing me and I am an expert as a result of taking apart one of each rifle, looking at part numbers on a diagram and talking to a customer service representative somewhere who was also looking at a parts diagram- they are different". So, I give up and stop communicating- it takes alot of effort to answer such statements when someone truly believes they know something, and insulting me doesn't add to the motivation to respond with the correct information.

In any event, the person was not entirely wrong- the factory does have minor piston variances based on production tolerances (which are much greater than they should be at times)- so one piston could be as much as 6mm longer than another based on my observations of scores of pistons- although generally speaking, the cocking slot is never off by more than a couple millimetres (meaning no significant difference in stroke length). Having different part numbers is not meaningful- the Chinese will change some part numbers for no discernible reason from one model to another on the exact same part. The point being, Chinese factories do some odd things and make more errors than would generally be considered appropriate anywhere else. Crosman has done fairly well with the Chinese manufacturers as a result of demanding certain specifications and checking them initially (i.e. when they first start being manufactured) to ensure the product operates reasonably well.

The only way to be sure of anything is to either test with the proper device(s)- i.e. a chrony, and see what comes out the muzzle- much of everything else is more speculation than it is solid information when it comes to what's what on Chinese products.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:15 am 
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Just buy a PAL rifle when U get your PAL.

Simplest thing to do considering the price of a Venom Dusk.

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