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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:54 pm
Posts: 361
Location: Earth
Recently shot a second hand pistol.
It is BB/pellet but first owner ran 700+ bbs thru it exclusively.
It groups quite poorly, excluding that it is blowback and new to me.
Edit: rapid firing results in more consistent placement (and I've read economy per cart too).

Has he shot the rifling out, peened it to death or should he just replace (barrel 20$) it?
Px4 storm 3" @ 15'.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:27 pm
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Location: Toronto
No need to replace the barrel. That is the average accuracy for a px4 because of the strong blowback recoil.

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"...await the right moment for one, and only one well-aimed shot" - Vassili Zaitsev


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
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Location: P.G. B.C.
I don't know anything about the blowback and it's accuracy effect, but to shoot a steel ball, brass covered or not, out of a rifled bore, brass or steel bore - no matter. WOW - OK - how about 10 shots or 20 would probably "ruin" the barrel. How much accuracy loss - well for me any loss is too much. 3" at 5 yards - WOW - it sounds like toast to me. The BB's shouldn't shoot that badly- should they?

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Daryl


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:45 pm 
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Location: Southern Ontario
Hmmm, 700+ BB's exclusively? Mine's always been pellet only, and I get way better groupings at that range. Accuracy's never been great, thanks in part to the blowback, but it's fun anyway. Rapid fire may have improved your accuracy because you held the same firing position for all shots, and were more target-concentrated...
Generally, power drops with rapid fire due to the properties of CO2. Not sure how it would give you better gas economy.
If you can remove the barrel, shine a penlight down it and see how the rifling looks.
You win extra points if you post pics...

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Air and springs and CO, too


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Location: Edmonton
The PX4 is just not an accurate, consistent shooter. I own two of them, and the fun factor is a nine. But don't try to shoot targets with it. Shoot cans, toy soldiers, or anything else. Want a good, inexpensive gun that loves to shoot at targets? By yourself a $60 Crosman 357 and let your PX4 go out and play. :)

$0.00


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:17 am 
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Location: Canada
Edmonton<500 wrote:
The PX4 is just not an accurate, consistent shooter. I own two of them, and the fun factor is a nine. But don't try to shoot targets with it. Shoot cans, toy soldiers, or anything else. Want a good, inexpensive gun that loves to shoot at targets? By yourself a $60 Crosman 357 and let your PX4 go out and play. :)

$0.00


Excellent advice IMO. :)

Some idle thoughts on the whole issue, take it how you wish....

Bb's are either zinc or copper plated.

Shooting them does not remove this thin plating of relatively soft material.

How much damage can REALLY be being done to the steel bore?

Not like the bb's actually FIT the bore either...they fall right through any bore I've tried them in.

Just the same...I won't be firing any through the LW's. :wink:

Shoot and have fun. :D

Al


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:23 am 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
Gippeto wrote:


Just the same...I won't be firing any through the LW's. :wink:

Shoot and have fun. :D

Al


That would show an actual conviction to a non-damage theory, woudn't it? :wink:

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Daryl


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:54 pm
Posts: 361
Location: Earth
Thanks everyone for the comments.
This gun is indeed fun, and for a double action / non-flinch trainer it scores high marks indeed.
That first fresh cart shot is on par with my .22 powder burners for snap. If you wait between shots, each blowback is almost as strong.

I think the rapid fire consistency is due to the lack of time to gasify liquid in the expansion chamber, or wherever it gases.
I imagine every BB down the barrel peening over one spot or more on a land.
I might pull the barrel off (and post pix) but when a new barrel is 30% the cost of a second hand gun, and general concensus is it's a shower not a hitter, well, limits the motivation. I might just use it to convince the raccoons my garbage is NOT the most delicious.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:54 pm
Posts: 361
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Modified the "hybrid crown" and it seemed to help.
Stripped it down, with some help from this fellow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2FgYqqntjc

On inspecting the crown end while the barrel is inside the plastic cover, it was obvious that the crown was uneven - the molding was not perfectly centered and I think the amount of movement the barrel allows when inside this barrel cover was allowing pellets to get clipped on occasion coming out the muzzle or at very least get affected by crappy combocrown. I was going to head for the drill press, but opted for a round needle file instead and just opened the barrel cover muzzle hole so that any barrel movement would not allow clipping. I didn't make a perfect crown, because I don't expect too much from this pistol.

It should be noted that there is a stand-off plastic bit that centers the barrel in the barrel cover. This plastic bit include a metal breech which aligns to the mag and leads into the barrel, which has a larger hole at the rear then the muzzle by eye at least. So, lots of places to leak gas, but who cares - it will still shoot four mags (4x16) with reasonable power, although it may fall to double action (insufficient cocking blowback) toward the end, where ballistic droopage happens anyway.

I feel better about shooting it, even if it did nothing and I imagined the whole thing.

I snapped photos but no rifling is visible really, nor by eye, yet the pellets have skirt bite marks when shot.
Maybe I'm too old for .177....
:-)


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