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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Location: Coalmont BC
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Over this winter I plan to continue with the development of my Hayabusa project gun by building a .457 rifle and a .410 shotgun version.... It is my hope for them to share a common valve, main tube and hammer, and a 500cc 250 bar (3625 psi) tank.... They will, of course, have different breeches.... Here is the ammo for the .410....

Image

Image.... Image

The shell has been shortened from 2.5" to 1.75" and the primer hole drilled out to 11/32".... The shot cup holds 223 grains of #7.5 shot (0.51 oz) full to the top (about 180 pellets).... My target velocity is 950 fps, but that works out to 450 FPE, which even with 3600 psi may be a stretch....

Bob

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Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Always look forward to your projects!

:)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Location: Northern Ontario
rsterne wrote:
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Over this winter I plan to continue with the development of my Hayabusa project gun by building a .457 rifle and a .410 shotgun version.... It is my hope for them to share a common valve, main tube and hammer, and a 500cc 250 bar (3625 psi) tank.... They will, of course, have different breeches.... Here is the ammo for the .410....

Image

Image.... Image

The shell has been shortened from 2.5" to 1.75" and the primer hole drilled out to 11/32".... The shot cup holds 223 grains of #7.5 shot (0.51 oz) full to the top (about 180 pellets).... My target velocity is 950 fps, but that works out to 450 FPE, which even with 3600 psi may be a stretch....

Bob


I cant wait to see this.
I would love something along those lines.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:52 am 
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Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
Hey Bob is that BELL Brass you are using?

I haven't seen any full length .410 brass shells in lots of years!

Sounds like a neat combo that was offered in quite a few guns and derringers. .410 shot shell/.45 Long Colt.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:20 am 
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This could get interesting 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:33 am 
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The brass is made by Magtech.... I had forgotten about the .45 Long Colt.... using those bullet for testing might be a lot easier on my Chrony!.... :oops: .... How heavy are they, anything over 200 gr. available?....

EDIT: Are you sure it's the .45?.... that makes no sense as the bullets are 0.452? and the .410 is, well, 0.410"....

AHHHHHHHHH!!!: Google is your friend.... .410 in .45 LC if the chamber is long enough and made for it.... NOT the other way around.... The .452" bullet will hit the forcing cone at the front of the .410 chamber and BOOM !!!!.... Well not exactly with an airgun, but you get the idea!.... However, a bullet from a .41 Magnum might be able to be sized to fit, provided I run the polychoke wide open....

Bob

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Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Interesting project, Bob.

Most .410 shotguns will chamber .444 Marlin brass. I used to load 1/2 ounce of shot in .444 cases, using .410 wad trimmed at the case mouth, 11gr. Unique, Lg. pistol primer and a .44 mag. gas check, crimped over the shot. They patterned more evenly for 30 yard kills on grouse than any .410 commercial shotshell in both my daughter's shotguns - their full chokes reamed to modified. This is a VERY safe practice- merely using a short brass case that fits the chamber, instead of a plastic or paper one.

Firing a .45 Colt Lead bullet factory load in a .410 shotgun (some .410's will not allow a .45 Colt to chamber all the way) will 'generally' not blow up a .410 shotgun. Do NOT, however, fire .444 Marlin rifle rounds or .44 Magnum rifle or handgun rounds in a .410 shotgun, even though they-too will chamber. The gun might be blown up due to the much higher initial pressures involved in the .44 or .444 cases. The .44 Mag and .444 both shoot .429" to .431" diameter bullets. The .45 Colt shoots a .452" to .454" bullet, but at very MUCH lower pressures, thus the bullet will be drawn to the .410's barrel size in the forcing cone prior to developing excessively high pressures that could injure the gun and/or shooter.

It is a BAD idea to shoot anything but what the gun is designed for!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.45 pistol bullet moulds are available from about 160gr. to 350gr. Lee might have a bullet listing on their 6 cavity moulds. They make bullets with both multi-ribbed design for their Liquid Alox lube, or with shallow, modern lube grooves more normally expected. Lee will also make a bullet sizer that fits any normal loading press, in any bullet size you want. Just lube the bullet and push it through.

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Last edited by Daryl on Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:07 pm 
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An interesting thought came to me today when I was thinking about how to Chrony the shotshell loads without hittting my Chrony.... I had some OOO Buckshot which measure about 0.36", and found out that they are a perfect fit inside the shotcup.... it still loads normally into the shell....

Image .... Image

They weigh just under 70 gr. each, so the total, is only 5% less than a 1/2 oz. of birdshot.... Just out of curiosity I also tried a .357" bullet and it also nestles nicely in the shotcup.... so if I want to have only a single projectile for Chronying I could get some 220 gr. bullets as an alternative.... However, I would think the dispersion on just three roundballs would be so slight that the chance of hitting my Chrony would be no worse than usual within 10' or so, and that should get it away from the muzzle blast no problem....

Incidently, the retained energy of EACH roundball is 120 FPE at 30 yards starting from 950 fps at the muzzle if I can push them that fast.... Three of them would make a heck of a mess of whatever they hit....

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:31 pm 
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There is a .410 self defense load on the market which is comprised of 3, triple ought buck - just as your load, is Bob - however they run about 1,300fps, I think.

Hornady's 000 buck is .350" - available from Wholesale Sports in a 5 pound box. There should be 500 of them in the box.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:22 pm 
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Well I won't be pushing 1300 fps with my Hayabusa, I'd be VERY happy to get to 950ish.... The OOO Buck I have is from Ballistics Products, and it measures 0.354-0.362".... with most falling between 0.356"-0.360".... I've used it before in my .357" Hayabusa where I can push it to 1055 fps, and that version has yet to have the larger valve fitted.... It currently shoots just over 200 FPE with any bullets over 100 gr....

The .410 /.457 version I'll be building this winter will have a significant increase in power (like double!).... Not only is there a large increase in the bore area, the valve and porting will be larger, and I'll be running a new 250 bar tank.... I'm going to have to increase the length of the action to accomodate a heavier, longer hammer with more travel and a longer spring, of course.... so there will be quite a few changes.... Amazing how far this gun has come from a .22 cal regulated version shooting about 45 FPE on 1600 psi.... :mrgreen:

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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