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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Location: Vernon BC
Hey guys, I was wondering if I can just swap the piston and gas strut from my Trail to the Phantom? My Trail has unexplainable accuracy issues so I want to put some of it to use. Also I want to put the barrel shroud on the Phantom too, how do I get the front sight off? Thanks for any help.

Btw, the chrony numbers from the Trails NP are consistent, so thats not a problem.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Location: Kingston, ON
The gas ram, piston, and rear block from the Trail NP should fit directly into your Phantom.
To remove the front sight from the Phantom, follow my handy pictorial guide (modify as needed).
topic41528.html?hilit=%20front%20sight

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Location: Vernon BC
Thanks a lot for the help!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Location: Northern Ontario
M3ga3T wrote:
Hey guys, I was wondering if I can just swap the piston and gas strut from my Trail to the Phantom? My Trail has unexplainable accuracy issues so I want to put some of it to use. Also I want to put the barrel shroud on the Phantom too, how do I get the front sight off? Thanks for any help.

Btw, the chrony numbers from the Trails NP are consistent, so thats not a problem.



If the barrel has the same latch setup, you could just swap the barrels. Would be easier.
Replacement barrels are available and they are not expensive.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:34 pm
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Location: Vernon BC
Thanks for the info. The phantom is a really nice shooter these days. Decent groups for the ranges I use it, max of 25 yards. Has proven itself for hunting (squirrel) at a bit further too. I'm finally going to get it a few "upgrades", like a nice 1 piece, and either a brake or shroud.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Honestly, and I sell the parts, it would be more effective to just purchase the Trail NP than convert to a gas strut and a shrouded barrel- you get a new scope in the box with the NP, just add a GTX trigger and you're all set. One or the other (strut conversion or shrouded barrel) would be reasonable, both is more expensive than is likely worthwhile.




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:30 pm 
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:lol: Hehe, I got the Trail from you Eric. Its just that I think I narrowed its newfound & allofasudden accuracy issues to the breech lock up. It shoots vertical strings like crazy. I also got the repair kit from you so I really don't think its a problem with the powerplant/seals. From a bit of researching, I think its a problem with the live jam? That might explain the vertical stringing. But before this, It was shooting amazingly!

I have voided my warranty by painting and stripping it down though. Otherwise I think the Trail is a great gun. And wish to pursue fixing it.

Thats the only reason I considered swapping the spring out of my Phantom with the NP of my Trail. (Also found out the long way the phantoms barrel is too thick and has no threads for the shroud :oops: )


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Location: Richmond, BC
You're not the only one having issues with the trails accuracy.... The Trail Sucks.... One of the most inaccurate and problematic rifles out there.... i have yet to see one shoot good groups.... I would sell the trail and get something else completely.... I have an aquaintance that bought two trails(dumba$$) ... and hes got the np upgrade from scopes and ammo as well as the trigger upgrade..... it still shoots like garbage... I watched the pyramid air review on the trail and the reviewer stated that on the box it says the effective range is 10 yards or less.... now if this is what the manufacturer says, i would avoid this one altogether...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:17 pm 
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A few people have had issues with the Trail- to state this is an epic problem is over-doing it just a tad. 20 people with problems out of thousands sold is not a high defect rate.

As to this "10 yard shooting range"- if a friend has two rifles- you can check the boxes yourself.

Shim the spring behind the jam to sort out a lockup/the issue. A couple small washers will likely be sufficient.






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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:19 pm 
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AirGunEric wrote:
A few people have had issues with the Trail- to state this is an epic problem is over-doing it just a tad. 20 people with problems out of thousands sold is not a high defect rate.

As to this "10 yard shooting range"- if a friend has two rifles- you can check the boxes yourself.

Shim the spring behind the jam to sort out a lockup/the issue. A couple small washers will likely be sufficient.


Quote:
20 people with problems out of thousands sold is not a high defect rate.

It is if your one of the 20 .... :P


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Location: Richmond, BC
AirGunEric wrote:
A few people have had issues with the Trail- to state this is an epic problem is over-doing it just a tad. 20 people with problems out of thousands sold is not a high defect rate.

As to this "10 yard shooting range"- if a friend has two rifles- you can check the boxes yourself.

Shim the spring behind the jam to sort out a lockup/the issue. A couple small washers will likely be sufficient.






http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront


HI Eric, I will check the boxes if it does say that... I'm only quoting the pyramid air review... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvACJjtL4sQ just forward to 6:50 ... I have yet to see one that can shoot as accurate as say a 1377 or 1322... Everyone i know that owns one of these has allways had an accuracy issue because the pellets will jump all over the place.... heres a really good accuracy review.... just watch how some of the pellets dont even hit the catchbox.... now if he cant get this to zero, i dont know who can...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In1O27YgkNI he's shooting from 18 yards... sad


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:09 am 
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The second video there is no statement about having broken the rifle in- so we aren't clear on that, he does say he got/people can reasonably expect 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 25 yards- but he can't do better with his shooting skills. Neither here nor there, all I'm suggesting is that he's not badmouthing the gun, just that he's not suggesting 1/2" groups at 100 yards. I think the last few years people may have gotten accustomed to claims from people shooting higher-end products doing 1/2" groups at 100 yards- but this is not going to come out of any sub-$300.00 gun.

Anyways, back to the point- it seems that definitely some people are having issues with vertical stringing in the last couple of months and it seems the solution has generally been the same- sorting out the barrel lock-up. This platform has been around for over 10 years now, the only real change being the gas strut- so if there have been recent issues re-occurring (I seem to recall this occurred for awhile on rifles of the platform produced about 8-9 years ago) with shots stringing vertically, to condemn the rifle overall seems a bit unfair- seems likely there may have been a bad batch with this lockup issue and the fix seems simple enough, Anyone remember the days when buying this platform of rifle meant taking it apart, cleaning it up, possibly replacing ragged piston seals due to factory burrs in the tube and so on? If the only issue is a weak lockup spring, it doesn't seem so bad in the larger context.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:30 am 
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Location: Vernon BC
Eric's right. My Trail was really accurate before the vertical stringing issue happened. If I knew how to fix the lock-up problem I have now, I assume it would be right back to being super accurate. I don't think its fair to discredit all Trails. After a good clean, debur etc. it's a really smooth rifle, accurate at good ranges, and innovative for piston airguns. The weaver mount, built in slings, NP, barrel shroud, sleek thumbhole stock all really are nice add-ons to the B18/19 platform. Its a suped up Phantom and I like it.

If everyone, me included, knew how to fix the lock-up issue a lot of accuracy issues would disappear. I know mine would. I seen how great this rifle is after a nice clean-up, little moly and break in.

Secondly, I would discredit EdgunUSA's "accuracy review" altogether. As much as a great shooter he is with his $2000 PCP's (I know, seen like all his videos), he doesn't know the characteristics of a springer (NP in this case). Even when he reviewed a Beeman R1 (or R9, I forgot), he was shooting awful. He has never tried any variation of an artillery hold. On probably the majority of spring/np piston airguns the artillery hold is quite necessary. He just thinks they are similar to his PCP's in all aspects but price.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:35 am 
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Location: Richmond, BC
AirGunEric wrote:
The second video there is no statement about having broken the rifle in- so we aren't clear on that, he does say he got/people can reasonably expect 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 25 yards- but he can't do better with his shooting skills. Neither here nor there, all I'm suggesting is that he's not badmouthing the gun, just that he's not suggesting 1/2" groups at 100 yards. I think the last few years people may have gotten accustomed to claims from people shooting higher-end products doing 1/2" groups at 100 yards- but this is not going to come out of any sub-$300.00 gun.

Eric, unfortunately to say, im not sure if you watched the second video or you just skimmed through it... If you check the 0:56 on the video and look at the top left corner, there is a pop up box and Ted does state that he put a tin of pellets before any filming began... you might want to check for yourself.... and as for accuracy in the under 300 category, most of the other crosman rifles in the under $200 dollar category will put this gun to shame out of the box....


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:44 pm 
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trickster2000 wrote:
most of the other crosman rifles in the under $200 dollar category will put this gun to shame out of the box....


If that is true- then I think we can suggest that a batch of the NP's might be sub-standard in respect to the barrel lockup- most of the Crosman/Benjamin springers are all the same platform these days, the only exception being the Trail NP XL's and the Raven- everything else is the same rifle with cosmetic modifications and a spring vs. a gas strut. Frankly, I think it's getting ridiculous- how many products can one manufacturer put out based on the same basic platform? At least 15, apparently, if we don't count the detuned models and .177 vs. .22 models with the same name.





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