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 Post subject: Piston seal problem
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:34 pm
Posts: 1155
Location: Vernon BC
Hey all, I ran into a slight problem with my TX o-ring piston seal. The seal comes off too easily, mid cycle even. Maybe during initial installation I didn't seat it correctly and it just got worse. I had to switch back to the stock seal the TX came with. Is there anything I could do with that seal or just try a new one? The difference between the Vortek o-ring seal and stock seal is almost night and day.


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 Post subject: Re: Piston seal problem
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:37 am
Posts: 3468
Location: Out There
That idea is one of the most half-baked wastes of time I think I have ever seen. The umbrella-type seals are used in springers to allow them to expand against the increasing pressure as the piston moves forward. I guess every 'manufacturer' has to come up with some really stupid ideas to keep flogging product. I'm not sure who is out there "recommending" things like this- but I think maybe they should be ignored in future (I have no idea if anyone is recommending this idea, but if there is, they should stop).

Stick with your original seal, or if it needs replacing, use a stock-type seal: http://scopesandammo.com/storefront/pro ... seal-p-754

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 Post subject: Re: Piston seal problem
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:43 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Hanover, On
I have no advice to offer you as I have no experience with o-ring piston seals, other than that my first spring piston gun (purchased in November 1981), a BSA Meteor, utilized an o-ring piston seal. I left that rifle with a relative, in 1983, after visiting them at their farm. I revisited them again in 2010, but I didn't ask about the BSA and do not know if it was problematic for them. It was trouble free for the 2 years that I had use of it though.
I'm interested in your problem though as I fully intend to machine the parts for either one or all of my three spring piston rifles. If the first gun proves to be an improvement over the parachute type seals, then I'll be willing to turn the parts for the others, as well. I'm certain that there will be trial and error/learning curve to figure out the proper 0-ring size, to get just the right amount of compession to A) seal properly, with minimal friction and B) to avoid the O-ring from rolling, which, I think, is what you may be experiencing.
There is a thread on GTA, http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=ccf3dfe4c0e117a72c133bee1478a3a5&topic=43773.0 . If you scroll down the page to just before the halfway mark, the discussion begins about o-ring piston seals. I'm not a GTA forum member, but perhaps if you contacted "NCED", from GTA forum, he might be able to help you out.


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 Post subject: Re: Piston seal problem
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:34 pm
Posts: 1155
Location: Vernon BC
Thanks for the info guys. Yes, when my o ring seal did work, it puts the stock seal to shame. The stock seal is okay, but the 'thunk' you get with the o ring is atleast 100 times better. I just don't know what happened to mine.

Good luck on your o ring seals. When mine worked, it was a massive upgrade to the stock seal.


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 Post subject: Re: Piston seal problem
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:47 pm 
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Posts: 3468
Location: Out There
M3ga3T wrote:
Good luck on your o ring seals. When mine worked, it was a massive upgrade to the stock seal.


This 'kit' is a poor work-around to try and replicate the BSA design- which your piston was not designed to use. The 'adapter' in this kit is made of pliable materials (as obviously a rigid hold down wouldn't be able to fit around the seal seat)- and the added height of the lower holder and o-ring means the surface area for retaining the upper hold-down is minimal- the fact it's coming off should not be a surprise. The only way this "might" have worked is if the upper hold was so tight it was a half-a-hair away from being torn when you install it (and even then it's debatable if it would hold up).

Bottom line is the design of this type of seal system is not bad- the idea of re-fitting a modern-type seal setup using an o-ring retained by a urethane holder is bad. Dump it, you won't be finding any satisfaction keeping it. If you are bent on the idea- send the piston to an airgunsmith with alot of experience (i.e. Len Joe) and see if they would be willing to re-do your piston for use with an o-ring seal, but there is no "quick fix" or simple "kit" that will do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Piston seal problem
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:34 pm
Posts: 1155
Location: Vernon BC
Thanks Eric. Yeah, those sweet few shots that were shooting correctly, o ring seal stayed on, were too good to be true I guess. The sound and recoil were just perfect.


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