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 Post subject: Phantom .22 FPS increase
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:30 am 
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Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 10:00 pm
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I have a Benjamin legacy .22 that is defective and im taking it back to the store, i was thinking of getting a crosman phantom and modding it so it gets more fps, i was wondering if anyone on here could tell me some ways to get it up our 700 fps or if i could use a Crosman Quest/Phantom 1000/800 Repair Kit to switch out the parts to make increase the FPS. Could anyone give me some tips on what i could do please

Thanks :)

Also here is the url to the kit http://scopesandammo.com/storefront/pro ... -kit-p-354


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:48 pm 
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Location: Vernon BC
Don't know if you have your PAL or not... And getting a Phantom .22 over 700 fps with normal weight lead pellets, I don't think so :? I have a PAL-rated Phantom and just ran it over the chrony for you:

With a 14.3gr JSB Exact it chronied at 645.5fps.

My phantom has the brass shim stock piston sleeve and well over 3000 pellets through it. Don't know how the brass piston sleeve affects velocity but it is what it is. Hopefully this gave you an idea.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:25 pm 
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Your brass piston sleeve is weighing things down and lowering the output. Remove it and you can get near 700fps in .22 with 14.3gr pellets without any other add-ons.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:45 pm 
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Location: Lower Mainland, B.C.
Use the search feature at the bottom of the page... You'll find more information than you need!
My modded Phantom shoots holes thru 1/2" plywood at 25' no chrony as of yet. IMO get rid of the anti decocking device that they are fitted with. This way the gun can be uncocked if you choose not to take the shot.
Very useful during hunts when the game moves out of sight or the shot is blocked by foliage or trees and you don't want to scare them off or keep the spring compressed for too long. It takes about 10 seconds when the action is out of the stock and is totally reversible as well :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:58 pm 
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Id be interestesd in that decocking ability, can you explain the mod?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Location: Vernon BC
AirGunEric wrote:
Your brass piston sleeve is weighing things down and lowering the output. Remove it and you can get near 700fps in .22 with 14.3gr pellets without any other add-ons.


Thanks for the heads up. Figured it slowed it down from stock. I like my phantom better now though, no twang. Just a quick, sharp thud.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:47 pm 
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Location: Lower Mainland, B.C.
mike87gt wrote:
Id be interestesd in that decocking ability, can you explain the mod?

Sorry no pics :roll: take the stock off
On the left side you'll see a long thin strip of metal with a slot running thru it with a tiny spring on the end
Crack the barrel slightly, remove the tiny spring and simply slide the anti decocker out of the action and your done!
Note.. It does not in any way affect the safety so the gun will still be safe.
You can also utube phantom disassembly and watch the guy do it. Hope this helps.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:30 pm 
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Getting >700 from a .22 14.3gr pellet in a Phantom is easy. Even breaking 750 is possible. Assuming you don't have the 500fps model, which I have no doubt can be modded to equal power but I'm not sure if the spring or piston is the same as the standard guns. I've heard they've reduced the power different ways thru the years.
Email me at chevota at hotmail.com and I'll send you the info on how to get that power Just remind me of who you are/what you want. M3ga3T, you too if you want....
I/we are assuming you meant .22, but in .177 you can break 1000 with mid weight pellets.
That decocking thing is super annoying imo and I remove/trash them first thing. It's actually called an anti-bear trap device meant to minimize the chance of the barrel snapping closed while open to load it and "bear trapping" your fingers. There's little risk imo of getting your fingers pinched, but it is possible. A side effect of the device is you can't decock the gun. A bonus of the device is you're less likely to bend the barrel. You see if you pull the trigger while the barrel is down, without that device, the barrel snaps closed with enough force that it bends upwards as the block stops and the barrel keeps going. Very common problem with break barrel guns, especially in the hands of curious people. Since it is a safety feature I can't suggest you remove it, but I do.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:59 pm 
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Location: Vernon BC
Thanks for the offer Chevota. But I like my Phantom as the 13 fpe shooter it is right now :D Only because I have the most pellets through it out of my air rifles, it still has the most squirrels under its belt :lol: And that's what it is for me, a nice 20 yard squirrel gun.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:20 pm 
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AirGunEric wrote:
Your brass piston sleeve is weighing things down and lowering the output. Remove it and you can get near 700fps in .22 with 14.3gr pellets without any other add-ons.



I thought adding weight to a piston (like the folks who go for bigger tophats) helped to increase power?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:02 pm 
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roger r. wrote:
AirGunEric wrote:
Your brass piston sleeve is weighing things down and lowering the output. Remove it and you can get near 700fps in .22 with 14.3gr pellets without any other add-ons.



I thought adding weight to a piston (like the folks who go for bigger tophats) helped to increase power?


Up to a certain point; yes, too much wight and you start losing power. I make tophats with double the shoulder length out of CRS or 01, this adds a little more preload to the spring and a little more weight. I don't have one in front of me but I believe the larger diameter (head of the tophat) length is around .18" and I seem to remember making them at about .36" long, I do not use these on a .177cal gun tho...

I have never employed a piston sleeve of any type so I cannot speak to the results of that...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:49 pm 
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roger r. wrote:
I thought adding weight to a piston (like the folks who go for bigger tophats) helped to increase power?


Depends on the specific gun/it's design specifications- nothing is "always" true. That being said, brass is heavy and a sleeve that is likely to be 4" or longer is going weigh alot more than a larger tophat.

One thing to keep in mind, the internet is full of "experts" who hear something, then repeat it without actually having tried it themselves or there being any real evidence or data to support it. I'm sure on some guns a heavier tophat will do something, on others not so much, on some it may outright cause issues. People like a single "rule" that can be applied to everything of a certain type/style (i.e. spring-powered airguns) but this is often not applicable.

Joel has obviously had some success with them as he indicates, but also note that he mentions weight and spring pre-load, not just weight.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:12 pm 
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M3ga3T: My most accurate airgun by far, and with the most kills by far is a .177 at ~12-14ftlbs depending on the pellet weight. It would be nice to have more power, but its a smaller gun so it is what it is. Your gun however could become more accurate with a tune because it reduces the reverse recoil/shock. That shock reduction also reduces scope problems and breakage. The power increase would allow you to step up to a heavier pellet at a similar velocity which are generally more accurate. For example you could go from the JSB 14.3 to 18.1 and not loose any fps. Heavier pellets make the gun even smoother and easier yet on the scope. Just a thought...

Roger; Like Eric said, there are factors. The ideal piston weight depends on the gun and pellet. The guns factors are piston bore, stroke, spring pressure/rate, piston weight, transfer port dia/length, chamber dead space, and barrel diameter/length. These will basically determine what power it makes with what pellet. The pellets main factor in how it works in the gun is weight, but hardness and friction factors too. If one thing about the gun or pellet changes then the power probably changes too. Say a .22 gun like a generic Crosman makes 18ftlbs power with 11gr pellets, and 15ftlbs with 18gr (it's typical for them to lose power when weight goes up like that). Adding piston weight will typically make power shift to work better with heavier pellets, so adding some weight may change the 11gr to 17ftlbs and the 18gr to 16. The more weight the more the change, but returns quickly diminish and you create new problems. Like the new weight will probably upset the balance of all the other factors the gun is made of and it may lose power across the board. Kinda like an engine, put a big cam in a stock engine and it will probably flop. Typically the guns parts are matched pretty good as-is for mid-weight pellets, but flaws in the gun upset this balance and cause a large power loss across the board. If that's the case then adding piston weight will typically be even worse. More piston weight will most likely make the reverse recoil/shock worse too, which upsets accuracy and breaks scopes, and again the more out of tune the gun the more this is a problem. So tuning the gun to work at its best is always the most important thing imo, then you can play with stuff like piston weight... Picture a new car off the assy line that hasn't been timed or anything yet. No point in modifying the engine unless you tune it right? When you get a cheap springer like a Crosman it's the same thing, they slap them together at minimal cost leaving us to finish the job, aka tune it. So there's usually many flaws left that need fixing, like the transfer port smoothness, the main and breech seal leakage, improper fit/size, friction everywhere, rough and/or sharp metal everywhere, parts not aligned, etc. So fix all that crap and the gun shoots much better, so much better that you probably won't bother with things like adding piston weight.
Btw, you can make a better piston sleeve from plastic. Much easier to make, free, and it doesn't affect the weight... I have details w/ pix if anyone wants. It's a cool mod for smoothing and quieting a springer, and well worth the effort...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:48 am 
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Location: Lower Mainland, B.C.
I'm thinking about sleeving the Phantom. Would really like to see your mods

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:47 am 
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chevota hotmail.com and I will send it to you. Too big to post.


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