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 Post subject: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:34 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:36 am
Posts: 2220
Location: Nova Scotia, near Halifax
i know i know,
pictures or it didn't happen.

so i got my hatsan mod 33 back from the shop. it was very light with no scope. i don't know how much it weights, but it really adds to the weight of the rifle. the rifle is muzzle heavy. the rear butt pad screws off to reveal a hollow stock, in which i placed a two pound diving weight. (with liberal amounts of epoxie after it was tested , oh and broke loose!!! :lol: )

the effect?
the rifle feels very heavy when held in a vertical position, but when you rest it horizontal on your hand it suddenly feels lighter and well balance front to back. just balances there, happy.
it seems to make holding the rifle much easier.

accuracy?
initial reports seem at least the same or better. more intensive testing is needed. seems easier to shoot.

conclusion:
2 lb diving weight in the back of the stock seems like a very cheap, easy mod that can really improve the balance of your rifle (at the least) at could prove , with further testing, to help accuracy (will report final shooting result asap).

i am so happy with the improvement this has made to my rifle if accuracy proves not to be effected in a negative way.

it must weigh 10 to 13 pounds now. my bathroom scale is not very accurate. but balances well.

with such an initial positive effect on my rifle, i surprised i don't seem more posts about weighting your rifle. :shock:

cheers!! :drinkers:
one more beer than out for round three of whipper snipping!

omissions, suggestions, flames????

_________________
my other coil is a sub ohm
sub 500 .22 Crosman Phantom 500 open sites
sub 500 .177 Crosman TR77 NPS 4-16x40 UTG
sub 500 .177 Hatsan mod 33 with Quattro trigger open sites


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:07 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 480
Location: Thunder Bay
I have found weighting very effective. I added lead shot in an old sock in the buttstock. I added enough so the gun balanced just ahead of the trigger guard where, as you say, it balances well and just "hangs there". I just posted on the airgun chat about lining the action with pond liner. It is under the "hold sensitive" post.

I have a crosman fury that I lined with pond liner and added weight until it now weighs about 11 lbs. It shoots at around 16fpe and is not real pellet picky. It will stack most pellets at 20 meters.

A basic lube tune really made a difference in the fury. The addition of weight, the pond liner, and a better trigger made that much difference again.

Cheers!

Rick.

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12 springers and a couple of pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

I'm not multitasking. I'm doing something else until I remember what I was doing.


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
Yup!
I have weighted a lot of my match guns to balance just in front of the trigger guard.
It helps with recoil in heavy recoiling guns. keeps lighter guns stable.

_________________
-Rick
Pardini K10
Brocock Concept .22
3 Custom Crosman 2260
Benjamin Discovery .22 w/Joe Hickey stock!
Crosman 150 pistol .22
4 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22
Mrodair CP-1M .22 and .177


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:13 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Toronto
In researching my post on any difference in hold sensitivity / accuracy between wood and synthetic stock I found there was no talk in AG land but some in PB land. The consensus there seemed to be from others experience that filling/weighting the hollow synth stock and proper bedding seemed to improve accuracy as well as the shooter's experience of recoil and "vibration" in the synth stock by adding weight/density and ensuring a real bond between the action and stock.

Also several restated the obvious but from their experience often over looked...the tightening of the screws attaching the action to the stock.

On another thread where I asked about filling the nighthawk stock (and I was just thinking for "feel" not accuracy then) a member hear posted success stuffing it with old cotton. That would deaden but not sure how much weight it would add.

I still have few synth stocks and would like to fill them for weight and feel.

Other than weights and epoxy or lead shot what have others used to fill and weight a hollow stock?

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Keep you powder dry and your seals oiled.
Shoot straight and safe.

http://plinkercases.ca/


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 480
Location: Thunder Bay
I forgot to mention. I also stuffed the hollow buttstock on the fury with scraps of leather (not my idea -I read it somewhere). I had an old leather jacket I cut into strips and just stuffed them in until it was well packed, leaving enough room for the lead weights. The leather seemed to deaden the twang a little, but it didn't add much weight.

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12 springers and a couple of pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

I'm not multitasking. I'm doing something else until I remember what I was doing.


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:04 pm
Posts: 841
Location: Nova Scotia
Plinkercases wrote:
Other than weights and epoxy or lead shot what have others used to fill and weight a hollow stock?


I have used electricians putty the same type as you would put behind a target to cushion pellets in a pellet trap. Adds weight and cushions sound at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
Murray, i have made mercury damoners for my 10 gauge goose gun. Recoil absorption mostly, but also mercury is very heavy. Tungsten, if you can find in granular firm is one of the heavier things you can buy.

I torqued my stock screws in my match rifles, along with aluminum pillars and Devcon bedding compound in synthetic stocks. I used Acra-Glass in wood stocks for bedding.

One of my 6mm PPC Bench rifles weighed 45lbs. A steel U-shaped beam and the action bolted to that.

_________________
-Rick
Pardini K10
Brocock Concept .22
3 Custom Crosman 2260
Benjamin Discovery .22 w/Joe Hickey stock!
Crosman 150 pistol .22
4 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22
Mrodair CP-1M .22 and .177


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:13 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Toronto
quickreply7789,
how did you re secure the 2lb weight?
have you filled around it with anything?

and rick what are mercury damoners?

_________________
Keep you powder dry and your seals oiled.
Shoot straight and safe.

http://plinkercases.ca/


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
Plinkercases wrote:
quickreply7789,
how did you re secure the 2lb weight?
have you filled around it with anything?

and rick what are mercury damoners?


http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/recoil-parts/recoil-reducers/universal-mercury-system-prod25271.aspx
Image

_________________
-Rick
Pardini K10
Brocock Concept .22
3 Custom Crosman 2260
Benjamin Discovery .22 w/Joe Hickey stock!
Crosman 150 pistol .22
4 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22
Mrodair CP-1M .22 and .177


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:31 pm
Posts: 696
Location: Halifax, NS
Sock + sand = success.

Kinda like: spending millions to make a space worthy pen when all one had to do use charcoal ..

Make sure sand is sealed n dry & remains dry in the butt/stock enclosure.
Using a plastic or polythene will yield better results as the sand won't seep out of the DIY sand condom.

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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:47 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
OR #12 lead shot. When you have the right balance, inject a two part epoxy all over it so it doesn't shift, up setting the balance.

_________________
-Rick
Pardini K10
Brocock Concept .22
3 Custom Crosman 2260
Benjamin Discovery .22 w/Joe Hickey stock!
Crosman 150 pistol .22
4 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22
Mrodair CP-1M .22 and .177


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:36 am
Posts: 2220
Location: Nova Scotia, near Halifax
Plinkercases:
i used dollar store 2part epoxy to hold the weight in place, and i didn't fill around it with anything.
the rifle feels better balancing it, and during the shot cycle.
i believe it helped accuracy, but i have been working the last two nights and i have to go out tonight so, the final verdict will be announced shortly on my experiment.

thanks for the input guys!

_________________
my other coil is a sub ohm
sub 500 .22 Crosman Phantom 500 open sites
sub 500 .177 Crosman TR77 NPS 4-16x40 UTG
sub 500 .177 Hatsan mod 33 with Quattro trigger open sites


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
I'd mount the weight as high as possible to help balance the recoil which will reduce hold sensitivity. I think adding a heavy scope is the best. If I were to only add to the inside of the butt stock then I'd do it as high as possible in there. Maybe make a bar of lead and epoxy it up in there, or a mix of epoxy and lead shot?


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:13 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Toronto
Chevota,
just so I understand when you say hi you mean as in just under the comb hence the scope idea? or do you mean as close to the action versus the shoulder pad.

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Keep you powder dry and your seals oiled.
Shoot straight and safe.

http://plinkercases.ca/


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 Post subject: Re: weighting the stock
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:11 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
As high on the comb as possible. (I wonder who coined "comb", doesn't seem fitting to me)
So as high as possible to move the center of mass as close to the bore line as possible. The bore line may not be perfect, but I think it;s close enough. So when the piston does its thing it moves the gun in as straight a line with the bore as possible.
It easy to picture if you exaggerate the opposite and have the weight hanging 12" below the barrel line, the piston would cause the gun to go back and barrel to climb, then reverse violently and move the gun forward and barrel downward. At some point when the barrel is headed downwards is when the pellet comes out, which would be a gamble what actual direction it was in. If everything were precision and perfect then the gun would pivot the same and the pellet would come out at the same time and still hit the target. Reality is the guns are not perfect, nor are the pellets, and especially not the shooter. So a gun with a good center of mass to the bore will mean less barrel up/down movement and less important your hold on the gun is "hold sensitivity".
If the mass of the gun is centered in line better then the piston will move the gun back and snap it forward in a straighter line so minimal barrel tilting and better accuracy. Adding weight period to the stock will help because it dampends that recoil/reverse recoil, but adding it to the top would be better than adding it to the bottom. To check bore balance just banace the gun on the
I'd also place it as aft as possible to get the balance (feel in your hands) you want with minimal weight. With a wood stock I would drill a hole in the butt end as high up as I could without making any thin spots, the fill with lead. Like drill a 1/2 to whatever size hole and X deep, then make a solid lead tube to fit it. Maybe have it recessed 1/2" so you can use screws wedged in the sides to lock it in, or recess a steel plate to hold it, or however. You'd want it locked in there good tho because the revers recoil will be trying to back it out. If the weight becomes loose at all you lose a lot of the bennies. Bennies being a quieter and smoother firing gun, accuracy, and the G's the weight was absorbing fir the scope will be lost as well. So there's a lot of bennies to adding weight, as long as its tight. Most people prefer light guns, and i'm one of those guys so we have to suffer the drawbacks. As mentioned about being tight, you also need to be sure the stock is tight to the gun. So the picture the gun is trying to break the scope and this weight is to dampen that, but if not locked solid to the stock an stock solid to the gun then you're losing out. Having it loose will also upset accuracy, maybe even worse than ever. Having the stock loose will probably pound the stocks screws and/or the holes thru the wood for them. If the gun has a recoil dealie between the stock and rear bolt I'd make sure it fits very tight in the stock. Normally they're loose so maybe epoxy it in place?
Barrel droop is another problem, it upsets many things. So fix the barrel first thing.
I can explain better if any doesn't make sense...
With a synthetic stock the internals vary, but I'd still shoot for the same weight position but I doubt you'll be able to make a nice neat hole. You can also add weight to the insides of the stock around the trigger and forward which would be better for accuracy, but not help the balance in your hands. You could also mount a bar of lead between the scope rings under the scope, or maybe to the scope itself, like rings on the 1" tube section. Or maybe use 30mm rings and wrap the 1" scope body sections with lead to make the tube 30mm to fit. I have lots of ideas....


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