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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:08 am 
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Well, I don't know about your Canadian version CX4 but mine only averages about 350 fps. Even my little metal ducks will often shrug off a hit unless it's a head shot. I can fire the shot and jog down to the target in time to greet it as it arrives.

Let me introduce you to a CX4 part called the 'valve bushing'. There are two different ones: part# 475.63.06.1 I(Canada version) and part# 475.60.06.1 (US version). The Canada version is machined aluminum with a hole a little bigger than 3/32". The US version is a black plastic injection molded part with a 5/32" hole. See pics below. I have been led to believe that this part is the only difference between the 495 fps and 600 fps guns. Maybe not - the jury is still out. I was able to obtain one of the US parts from D&L for the sum of $4.50 + $5.00 shipping (thanks, Kelley!).

I had just received a single 12g CO2 adapter from China so I could test without throwing away too much CO2. As a baseline I tested the gun with the 12g cartridge and the stock Canadian part. Ten shots averaged 352 fps, as expected. I then tested with the US part and a new 12g cart. Ten shots averaged 452 fps. Nowhere near 600 fps but 100 fps better.

OK, I can hear someone in the background mumbling about "but you said for free...". So I did what any red-blooded old Canadian phart would do - I drilled the aluminum Canadian part out to 5/32" like the US one and tested it. Even better - average over two 10 shot sessions was 462 fps. That's another 10 fps over the US part. Not sure why the extra 10 fps but I suspect it may be the larger entrance hole on the US part, probably there to either save on cost or to enable a more uniform wall thickness to prevent stress as the part cools after molding. It's an extra gas expansion area that is probably not a good idea.

Why didn't I try an even bigger hole size? Well, if I had another spare part to work with maybe I would, But I expect no difference because the 5/32" hole is already bigger than the output hole on the valve that feeds it.

Comments/suggestions welcomed!

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Daisy 953 * QB78D * Walther 1894 * Beretta CX4 & PX4 * Zoraki HP01 * Beeman P17 * Walther CP88 Comp. * Crosman 1377/2240/SA6/357-8
Swiss Arms P92 * Colt Commander 1911 * Walther PPK * P08 * Colt Python 357 * TW 1911/Limited * S&W M&P R8


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:02 am 
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I'd be perfectly happy with mid 400s on my CX4 - my current state is exactly as yours was. But what'd I'd really like to know is how it performs with an 88gr CO2 cart attached.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:01 am 
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Edmonton<500 wrote:
I'd be perfectly happy with mid 400s on my CX4 - my current state is exactly as yours was. But what'd I'd really like to know is how it performs with an 88gr CO2 cart attached.

Well, theoretically there should be no difference. There might be some difference in the first few shots until everything stabilizes. As long as there remains liquid CO2 in the cartridge it should not matter how much of it is there - 12g or 88g. My testing seems to bear this out.

When I first got the gun I ran 11 shots through the chrono with an almost new 88g cart. The highest was 383, the lowest 329, and the average was 354.1 fps.

With the 12g cart and stock parts the highest was 381, the lowest 312, and the average of ten shots was 352.5 fps.

I won`t be putting an 88g cart in again until I`m finished playing around. I am toying around with the valve now. I made one simple mod to the valve and picked up another 10 or so fps. Again with 10 shots, a high of 492, low of 447, and an average of 471.6.

Valve mods are not for the faint of heart. There was some sort of threadlocker chemical on the threads and I had to freeze the valve to finally be able to bust it loose. I then spent an hour with a pick tool cleaning the residue out of the threads.

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Daisy 953 * QB78D * Walther 1894 * Beretta CX4 & PX4 * Zoraki HP01 * Beeman P17 * Walther CP88 Comp. * Crosman 1377/2240/SA6/357-8
Swiss Arms P92 * Colt Commander 1911 * Walther PPK * P08 * Colt Python 357 * TW 1911/Limited * S&W M&P R8


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Can you get through a mag with a single 12gr CO2 cart?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Edmonton<500 wrote:
Can you get through a mag with a single 12gr CO2 cart?

I didn't know. Now I do. You owe me a cart. :lol:

The answer is - probably. It would depend I suspect on how fast you fired them. Also take into consideration I'm getting more fps than stock so I am probably using more gas. There was considerable variance in fps - I suspect more than you would get with an 88g. For example the first four shots were 502, 510, 503 :wink: , 397 :? Never saw a 5xx again. Average for 30 shots was 438 fps. Shots 31 through 40 were 415 / 406 / 383 / 370 / 374 / 362 / 357 / 343 / 335 / 319. I quit then.

I don't feel a single cart is the answer, but a dual cart would be nice. But then we already figured that.

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Daisy 953 * QB78D * Walther 1894 * Beretta CX4 & PX4 * Zoraki HP01 * Beeman P17 * Walther CP88 Comp. * Crosman 1377/2240/SA6/357-8
Swiss Arms P92 * Colt Commander 1911 * Walther PPK * P08 * Colt Python 357 * TW 1911/Limited * S&W M&P R8


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:18 pm 
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OK folks. Confession and warning time. I just finally put a 88g cart back in the gun. Fired about 30 shots through the chronograph and the wild swings in the velocity had me confused. A 529 fps would be followed by a 231 fps followed by a 519fps. This is with the plastic US valve bushing in the gun. When I got a 500 followed by a 11, a 24, and a 9 fps (wtf?) I decided I must be doing something wrong.

I checked the chrono with my Daisy 953. No problem. Five shots all around 485 fps. Hmmm.

OK, since I do all my shooting inside I have a one of the little box style chronos that you are supposed to stick the muzzle of the gun right up to. I was setting up with the muzzle about two inches in front of the box. This worked with the Daisy as it is compressed air. With the CX4 I was getting quite a bit of CO2 blowing out with the pellet. That appears to cause problems with this chrono. I moved the chrono about 10'' away (as far as I felt comfortable that I could get the muzzle lined up with the 1" hole. Bingo. I put 11 shots through it with the CX4 with an average of 570 fps. Much more consistent. The first shot was 588 fps (the first shot quite often is a bit higher) but the rest were within 10 fps of each other.

So the warning? Turns out this is no longer a non-PAL gun. Let your conscience be your guide.

_________________
Daisy 953 * QB78D * Walther 1894 * Beretta CX4 & PX4 * Zoraki HP01 * Beeman P17 * Walther CP88 Comp. * Crosman 1377/2240/SA6/357-8
Swiss Arms P92 * Colt Commander 1911 * Walther PPK * P08 * Colt Python 357 * TW 1911/Limited * S&W M&P R8


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:00 pm 
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Location: Beautiful British Columbia
What were your shots per 88g cart before/after?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:21 pm 
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damack wrote:
What were your shots per 88g cart before/after?

Not sure what you are asking. Number of shots per cartridge or velocity (fps) before/after. Anyway, I can't really answer either one. I didn't count the number of shots from a cart before - at least 240 (8 mags) probably more. This is the first 88g cart in the gun after modding and I only have 40-50 shots on it. I don't really keep track unless I'm doing a test string. Judging by the excess CO2 coming out the muzzle probably a fair number less. The carts I use are only $17 for two at Canadian Tire.

If you are talking about fps - about 350 avg before mod, maybe more (400?) if I wasn't chronoing it right. Now averaging about 570 fps. I need to keep an eye on it for a while and see what's up. Maybe buy a better chrony and some light source for it so it will work inside.

_________________
Daisy 953 * QB78D * Walther 1894 * Beretta CX4 & PX4 * Zoraki HP01 * Beeman P17 * Walther CP88 Comp. * Crosman 1377/2240/SA6/357-8
Swiss Arms P92 * Colt Commander 1911 * Walther PPK * P08 * Colt Python 357 * TW 1911/Limited * S&W M&P R8


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:28 pm 
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lleader wrote:
damack wrote:
What were your shots per 88g cart before/after?

Not sure what you are asking. Number of shots per cartridge or velocity (fps) before/after. Anyway, I can't really answer either one. I didn't count the number of shots from a cart before - at least 240 (8 mags) probably more. This is the first 88g cart in the gun after modding and I only have 40-50 shots on it. I don't really keep track unless I'm doing a test string. Judging by the excess CO2 coming out the muzzle probably a fair number less. The carts I use are only $17 for two at Canadian Tire.

If you are talking about fps - about 350 avg before mod, maybe more (400?) if I wasn't chronoing it right. Now averaging about 570 fps. I need to keep an eye on it for a while and see what's up. Maybe buy a better chrony and some light source for it so it will work inside.


Thanks, it was first one (number of shots) is what I was curious about. Basically if you're using significantly more CO2 and what difference it makes in how many shots per cartridge. Just curious is all.

I also wonder what affect the increased fps might have on accuracy


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:50 pm 
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damack wrote:
The first one (number of shots) is what I was curious about. Basically if you're using significantly more CO2 and what difference it makes in how many shots per cartridge. Just curious is all.

I also wonder what affect the increased fps might have on accuracy

I am curious as well. Problem is I just bought the gun and before I had used a full cart I started working on it. Right now the only difference from stock is the US valve bushing (supposedly the only difference in the two versions) and I had increased the size of the input hole to the valve body a bit (in hindsight probably not necessary).

The gun is not known to be super accurate. I only shoot it in my basement at 23 feet. I will be testing the accuracy some more as time goes by. Mine is the XT model with the 'compensator' (read: phony silencer) and I found that putting it on the gun drastically affected the accuracy in a negative manner. It was very inconsistent with it on. Many flyers off by 4 or 5 inches. As for accuracy with the fps increase - it is now at, or approaching, the US gun standard velocity so in theory shouldn't be affected much.

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Daisy 953 * QB78D * Walther 1894 * Beretta CX4 & PX4 * Zoraki HP01 * Beeman P17 * Walther CP88 Comp. * Crosman 1377/2240/SA6/357-8
Swiss Arms P92 * Colt Commander 1911 * Walther PPK * P08 * Colt Python 357 * TW 1911/Limited * S&W M&P R8


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:39 am 
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Quote:
Mine is the XT model with the 'compensator' (read: phony silencer) and I found that putting it on the gun drastically affected the accuracy in a negative manner. It was very inconsistent with it on. Many flyers off by 4 or 5 inches.

That's interesting - 4 inches @ 23 feet sounds like the pellets must be physically hitting the compensator on the way through. Does it have a relatively small bore at some point, and does it fit on firmly enough to stay well aligned?

Jim


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:52 am 
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Completely off topic and I apologize but I put 50 rounds through a real 9mm CX4 last night and it was amazing!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:48 am 
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EverHopeful wrote:
Quote:
Mine is the XT model with the 'compensator' (read: phony silencer) and I found that putting it on the gun drastically affected the accuracy in a negative manner. It was very inconsistent with it on. Many flyers off by 4 or 5 inches.

That's interesting - 4 inches @ 23 feet sounds like the pellets must be physically hitting the compensator on the way through. Does it have a relatively small bore at some point, and does it fit on firmly enough to stay well aligned?

Jim

Yes, it was hitting the compensator exit hole. I could see the shiny spot where it hit. But it is a VERY tight fit on the gun and can't be 'shifted' around at all. I did try rotating it but it didn't help. So I drilled the exit hole a bit larger and the 4" flyers stopped but the smaller variations were still there. If I took it off the gun would shoot 1/2" groups with the occasional flyer at 3/4" (probably me). It's not a match target rifle, and I haven't really experimented with different pellets.

I bored the compensator out so it can be pushed back on the barrel right to the stock. This puts the end of the muzzle about 1/2 inch from the enlarged exit hole so it no longer has an effect. Gives the gun a nice sort of bullpup look.

_________________
Daisy 953 * QB78D * Walther 1894 * Beretta CX4 & PX4 * Zoraki HP01 * Beeman P17 * Walther CP88 Comp. * Crosman 1377/2240/SA6/357-8
Swiss Arms P92 * Colt Commander 1911 * Walther PPK * P08 * Colt Python 357 * TW 1911/Limited * S&W M&P R8


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