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 Post subject: Diana...know your seals
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:40 pm 
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Location: Fredericton, NB
greetings

what an adventure...

after receiving a vortek seal from a retailer and wouldn't fit, they sent me an original Diana seal they had in stock(blue), like the vortek, this one does not fit either, the outside diameter is correct, but the inner is much smaller then the newer style black seal the came with my Diana 34, it also has a stepper angle than the newer seal

this can mean a couple of things;

1- Diana has not only change for a black seal, but seems to have also changed the piston head, even if i was to cut the angle of the blue seal, it still would not fit on the piston, the inner is simply not the same

2-if you have a newer Diana, it would be best to examine the seal and take the part number off of it before you order, or this will end up costing a lot of back and forth shipping

OEM Diana 34 black seal part number is 302366

OEM Diana 34 blue seal part number is CFW E2 28-1


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IMG_2309.JPG
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IMG_2308.JPG
IMG_2308.JPG [ 141.37 KiB | Viewed 859 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:40 pm 
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The part numbers, unfortunately in this case, don't mean alot.

Diana, for some unknown reason, puts different part numbers on the same part, depending on what rifle it is from.

In your example, those part numbers indicate the same seal (as another example, the exact same seal used on the 24, 240, 280, 34 and 350 all have different part numbers).

What this means is that Diana has apparently created a new problem for themselves- now they need to differentiate which seal was used in a particular gun, and then come up with yet another part number or part numbers for this different seal. This seems like alot of really bad thinking on their part- and nonsensical as they have been using the same sized seal for a couple decades now.

So- let me ask this- where did the rifle come from, and is it possible someone else got into it and changed the piston (for what reason I cannot imagine)? The only other possibility I can think of that might have caused this situation- they ran out of pistons at some point and whomever they got to manufacture pistons in a rush so as to not shut down their production line messed up the dimensions, but "fortunately" (for Diana's production line anyways) they still were functional so they installed them (hopefully only temporarily). I will see if I can find anything out about this- otherwise this may become a problem for alot more people over time.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:26 am 
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dumb question. have you measured the piston to determine if the black seal was the proper one, to begin with?? or, have you tried to mount the new seal?? even my ruger airhawk ( D34 clone ) takes a standard diana seal. i know because i just put one on it, a couple of weeks ago. this just seems very odd that even a factory diana seal won't fit.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:39 am 
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longhunter wrote:
dumb question. have you measured the piston to determine if the black seal was the proper one, to begin with?? or, have you tried to mount the new seal?? even my ruger airhawk ( D34 clone ) takes a standard diana seal. i know because i just put one on it, a couple of weeks ago. this just seems very odd that even a factory diana seal won't fit.



the black one is the OEM in the rifle, the blue one is also OEM, i have tried two other aftermarket seals meant for a D34, these two had the same inner dimensions as the blue one and will not fit, i even forced one of the aftermarket on there, the piston stub on the end is so big that it enlarges the outer diameter of the seal in a way that once assembled, it no longer fits in the compression tube

there is no doubt, Diana has changed piston and seal(temporary or not)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:50 am 
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AirGunEric wrote:
The part numbers, unfortunately in this case, don't mean alot.

Diana, for some unknown reason, puts different part numbers on the same part, depending on what rifle it is from.

In your example, those part numbers indicate the same seal (as another example, the exact same seal used on the 24, 240, 280, 34 and 350 all have different part numbers).

What this means is that Diana has apparently created a new problem for themselves- now they need to differentiate which seal was used in a particular gun, and then come up with yet another part number or part numbers for this different seal. This seems like alot of really bad thinking on their part- and nonsensical as they have been using the same sized seal for a couple decades now.

So- let me ask this- where did the rifle come from, and is it possible someone else got into it and changed the piston (for what reason I cannot imagine)? The only other possibility I can think of that might have caused this situation- they ran out of pistons at some point and whomever they got to manufacture pistons in a rush so as to not shut down their production line messed up the dimensions, but "fortunately" (for Diana's production line anyways) they still were functional so they installed them (hopefully only temporarily). I will see if I can find anything out about this- otherwise this may become a problem for alot more people over time.



the rifle came from on line retailer SSSO, from what i understand, they get their Diana's from Umarex in the states, I'm not sure if they have a store front or not, if they run out of Diana's like they are at the moment, its reasonable to assume its a merchandise that has a somewhat high selling volume, not sure how long this one would have stayed on a shelf, i can tell you that the package was open but that's expected as they test the rifle before shipping it to the customer, like you said, it would be difficult to imagine somebody opening it up and swapping the assembly, i obviously took it apart and didn't notice any tampering

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:39 am 
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If it was me, I'd order a replacement/aftermarket piston. Sad to think you might have to go that route, just to get a seal to fit.
Would it be possible to have the piston turned down? That might be another way to go.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:23 pm 
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I'd email the query with part numbers and photos to Diana.de ; in the past they were very good at answering customer questions. I wonder if they are outsourcing parts again?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:34 pm 
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I found the seal that came with my PG2(straight from Tom)for my 34 was a b!tch to get on the piston. But after soaking in some hot water for a few minutes it became more pliable and went on a bit easier. The rifle is a new version with T06 and fibre optic sights.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:27 pm 
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Diana has said that they did use black piston seals to cover a shortfall on the blue units (i.e. temporarily) but that the piston should still allow the blue seal to fit.

It may be simply that the blue seal is tighter and the black unit was just lower quality- thus its disintegration and maybe 'sloppy' fit(?)

If you can get the blue seal on the piston, I might suggest using it, and sanding the perimeter a bit to get it to fit into the tube. Otherwise, you may be at this for quite awhile.

The other option of course, would be to suggest the complete rifle be exchanged for a new one with the usual blue seal- seeing as how this unit has been problematic from the get-go.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:44 pm 
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thanks for doing that Eric :)

i received a similar answer today as a matter of fact, apparently it involves some sort of tool when you have it done by them, i decided to try my luck and just be careful about it, i succeeded without destroying the seal, was quite the SOB last time i attempted that, i tried in the compression chamber and its a tight fit, but it does fit :D (unlike last time)

now with all that being said, i would like to apologize for creating quite a stir for the members on here who might have read this and wondered if their Diana's would have the same issue if they ever replace the seal

if any good has come out of this, it would be the following; now we know, and for the time being, no worries about buying a replacement seal

cheers

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:35 am 
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Didn't ruffle my feathers one bit. Glad to hear you got it sorted out.
If your seal is a tight fit in the chamber, expect lower velocities until it wears itself in.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:17 pm 
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well i guess the new seal and a bit of internal tuning did her good...after her break-in back in June she shot good, but she never shot this good 8)

3 cards with groups of 5 at 20, 30 and 40 yards, not really taking my time !


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:45 pm 
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Looks like you're back in business.


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