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 Post subject: Weihrauch Canadian guns
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:44 pm 
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Posts: 93
Noticed that certain retailers sell a "Canadian" version of their models to keep guns under 500 fps. Other than that I see guns are identical. That being said it is simply a detuned version of non-Canadian guns they sell? Would a simple spring kit bring them up to normal production guns i.e. greater than 500 fps?

btw not interested in purchasing any of the Weihrauch line of guns just curious.

Wayne


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:24 pm
Posts: 799
Location: Vancouver, BC
Wayne361 wrote:
Noticed that certain retailers sell a "Canadian" version of their models to keep guns under 500 fps. Other than that I see guns are identical. That being said it is simply a detuned version of non-Canadian guns they sell? Would a simple spring kit bring them up to normal production guns i.e. greater than 500 fps?

btw not interested in purchasing any of the Weihrauch line of guns just curious.

Wayne


Apparently it is just the spring. I have considered getting the detuned version, and then putting in a Vortex kit once I receive my PAL. However, without your PAL, you could get into a lot of trouble if you tune any gun to over 500 FPS, especially pistols.

The grey area is what kind of pellets do you test? I'm sure a lot of "detuned" non-PAL guns can break 500 FPS with alloy pellets, but that is not clearly defined.

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FX Streamline .22 - Optisan Mamba Lite 4-16X44
Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10 .22 - Bushnell Elite 4200 4-12X40
Custom Crosman 2240 w/ LW barrel - Vortex Strikefire
Remington AirMaster 77 PAL rated - CenterPoint 3-9X40


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:49 pm 
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Barfman wrote:
Wayne361 wrote:
Noticed that certain retailers sell a "Canadian" version of their models to keep guns under 500 fps. Other than that I see guns are identical. That being said it is simply a detuned version of non-Canadian guns they sell? Would a simple spring kit bring them up to normal production guns i.e. greater than 500 fps?

btw not interested in purchasing any of the Weihrauch line of guns just curious.

Wayne


Apparently it is just the spring. I have considered getting the detuned version, and then putting in a Vortex kit once I receive my PAL. However, without your PAL, you could get into a lot of trouble if you tune any gun to over 500 FPS, especially pistols.

The grey area is what kind of pellets do you test? I'm sure a lot of "detuned" non-PAL guns can break 500 FPS with alloy pellets, but that is not clearly defined.


Im not going to buy one but legally I dont know if it is much of a problem. Here is my rationale....you need PAL for purchase only for guns shooting >500ftp. If gun was given to someone with a POL for example and they modified it to shoot above 500 fps it would be totally legal to possess such a gun as owner has a POL. Same reason person owning shotguns and rifles is totally in the clear with only having a POL. I could be wrong but logic would state that if I am the law is f#$ked up.

Wayne


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:24 pm
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Sorry, I'm not quite following...

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FX Streamline .22 - Optisan Mamba Lite 4-16X44
Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10 .22 - Bushnell Elite 4200 4-12X40
Custom Crosman 2240 w/ LW barrel - Vortex Strikefire
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:50 pm 
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Barfman wrote:
Sorry, I'm not quite following...


Sorry Barf....will try to better explain my position. There were two classes of Canadian gun licensing 1) POL (Possession Only License) = can own non-restricted firearms but cant purchase new ones. 2) PAL (Possession Aquisition License) = can own and purchase non-restricted firearms. There was also the now defunct Long Gun Registry where owners had to register their long guns. i.e. gov't had knowledge of who owned which guns based on make, model and serial number. It would be an offense to be in possession of a gun not registered to you. Now that the long gun registry is gone (thank you Conservatives very much) people can still renew their POL but I believe if you are a new gun owner you have to get your PAL (I could be wrong as I was around in the POL days) in order to possess/buy. I am ignorant of newer laws since I have PAL but know people are renewing their POL licenses of old. That being said if someone with a PAL purchased a >500 fps pellet gun and gave it to a POL holder their would be no issue that I can see as POL license holder is fully legal to own rifles, shotguns. Since there is no long gun registry the gov't would have no idea POL owner was in possession of new gun and would be legal to possess under terms of POL. Hope I am making this clear. Same as if POL holder purchased one of the new Canadian Weihrauch guns and converted to >500 fps gun.

Hope this is clear as mud :)

Wayne


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:05 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Wayne361 wrote:
Sorry Barf....will try to better explain my position. There were two classes of Canadian gun licensing 1) POL (Possession Only License) = can own non-restricted firearms but cant purchase new ones. 2) PAL (Possession Aquisition License) = can own and purchase non-restricted firearms. There was also the now defunct Long Gun Registry where owners had to register their long guns. i.e. gov't had knowledge of who owned which guns based on make, model and serial number. It would be an offense to be in possession of a gun not registered to you. Now that the long gun registry is gone (thank you Conservatives very much) people can still renew their POL but I believe if you are a new gun owner you have to get your PAL (I could be wrong as I was around in the POL days) in order to possess/buy. I am ignorant of newer laws since I have PAL but know people are renewing their POL licenses of old. That being said if someone with a PAL purchased a >500 fps pellet gun and gave it to a POL holder their would be no issue that I can see as POL license holder is fully legal to own rifles, shotguns. Since there is no long gun registry the gov't would have no idea POL owner was in possession of new gun and would be legal to possess under terms of POL. Hope I am making this clear. Same as if POL holder purchased one of the new Canadian Weihrauch guns and converted to >500 fps gun.

Hope this is clear as mud :)

Wayne


That actually makes sense to me now, thanks! Yeah, I figure as long as someone has PAL / RPAL / POL, they should be able to do the conversion?

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Mike

FX Streamline .22 - Optisan Mamba Lite 4-16X44
Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10 .22 - Bushnell Elite 4200 4-12X40
Custom Crosman 2240 w/ LW barrel - Vortex Strikefire
Remington AirMaster 77 PAL rated - CenterPoint 3-9X40


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:27 pm
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Barfman wrote:
Wayne361 wrote:
Sorry Barf....will try to better explain my position. There were two classes of Canadian gun licensing 1) POL (Possession Only License) = can own non-restricted firearms but cant purchase new ones. 2) PAL (Possession Aquisition License) = can own and purchase non-restricted firearms. There was also the now defunct Long Gun Registry where owners had to register their long guns. i.e. gov't had knowledge of who owned which guns based on make, model and serial number. It would be an offense to be in possession of a gun not registered to you. Now that the long gun registry is gone (thank you Conservatives very much) people can still renew their POL but I believe if you are a new gun owner you have to get your PAL (I could be wrong as I was around in the POL days) in order to possess/buy. I am ignorant of newer laws since I have PAL but know people are renewing their POL licenses of old. That being said if someone with a PAL purchased a >500 fps pellet gun and gave it to a POL holder their would be no issue that I can see as POL license holder is fully legal to own rifles, shotguns. Since there is no long gun registry the gov't would have no idea POL owner was in possession of new gun and would be legal to possess under terms of POL. Hope I am making this clear. Same as if POL holder purchased one of the new Canadian Weihrauch guns and converted to >500 fps gun.

Hope this is clear as mud :)

Wayne


That actually makes sense to me now, thanks! Yeah, I figure as long as someone has PAL / RPAL / POL, they should be able to do the conversion?[/quot

Ya thats what I am thinking as well. I think the only way you could get in trouble is if you didnt have any valid gun license and went ahead and converted a Canadian gun <500 fps into a fierarem >500 fps. Thus you would be in violation of unlawfully possessing a firearm.
For the record this is how I percieve the law. I dont condone breaking any law and it is up to the individual to research and know the law before attempting to modify a firearm.

Wayne


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6015
Location: P.G. B.C.
Wayne361 wrote:


Here is my rationale....you need PAL for purchase only for guns shooting >500ftp. If gun was given to someone with a POL for example and they modified it to shoot above 500 fps it would be totally legal to possess such a gun as owner has a POL. Same reason person owning shotguns and rifles is totally in the clear with only having a POL. I could be wrong but logic would state that if I am the law is f#$ked up.

Wayne


When POL holder 'changed' the gun to be a PAL gun- according to MANY police, he thus acquired a PAL gun - without having possession of a PAL - he thus has broken the law per se' - if someone knew about it and could prove it.

I do not condone this action - get a stinking PAL - it's a piece of cake - or at least pasta..

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Location: Hamilton
I ordered my Under 500 HW87KT from SSSO earlier this year, at the same time I was waiting to get my PAL back in the mail
I had the cash and didn't want to NOT get the 97 so I went with the Canadian version
When I got my licence I just called them up and ordered the lube and spring!!
The upgrade took my rifle from an average 500 to 725 fps
In its under 500 state it shoots GREAT, at PAL levels it shoots just that little bit nicer :)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:12 pm 
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That's the way to do it, well done, Mike.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:31 pm 
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Daryl wrote:
Wayne361 wrote:


Here is my rationale....you need PAL for purchase only for guns shooting >500ftp. If gun was given to someone with a POL for example and they modified it to shoot above 500 fps it would be totally legal to possess such a gun as owner has a POL. Same reason person owning shotguns and rifles is totally in the clear with only having a POL. I could be wrong but logic would state that if I am the law is f#$ked up.

Wayne


When POL holder 'changed' the gun to be a PAL gun- according to MANY police, he thus acquired a PAL gun - without having possession of a PAL - he thus has broken the law per se' - if someone knew about it and could prove it.

I do not condone this action - get a stinking PAL - it's a piece of cake - or at least pasta..


I agree on getting the PAL first and foremost but its fun to dissect what is and what isnt actually illegal. You say "many police"...but what is the LAW? I see a HUGE grey area here. A POL holder is able to possess shotguns, high powered rifles, rim fire rifles etc but he/she isnt able to have a pellet gun "given" to them? I think the police have better things to do with their time IMO. Again, thats my opinion only.
I see further changes coming that will clarify the laws due to these type of issues. But as stated, get a PAL and there are no issues to deal with.

Wayne


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:54 pm
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Location: Northeastern Ontario
I don't know what the "law" would say. If you get a sub-500 fps HW and change the spring, you would have "acquired" a PAL-rated gun, something you didn't previously have. Would it be any different from building an over 500 fps gun from scratch, so to speak, as some people have done? I don't know if the constabulary would wrestle with the semantics or simply lay gun-related charges. When in doubt it is often wise to err on the safe side.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Penage Guy wrote:
I don't know what the "law" would say. If you get a sub-500 fps HW and change the spring, you would have "acquired" a PAL-rated gun, something you didn't previously have. Would it be any different from building an over 500 fps gun from scratch, so to speak, as some people have done? I don't know if the constabulary would wrestle with the semantics or simply lay gun-related charges. When in doubt it is often wise to err on the safe side.


But a PAL rated gun is ok to own by someone with a POL... :roll: It is literally a "which came first the chicken or the egg?" type scenerio. POL guy buys sub 500 gun and buys a spring to boost power. Now he legally owns a firearm under the terms of the POL. hahahaha....

Always err on the side of caution and get PAL...100% agree but the law is rather silly at the time being.

Wayne


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:13 pm 
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Location: Nova Scotia
possession only licenses are no longer being issued. The deadline to renew your previous POL was back in 2001. If you had a POL and kept renewing it you might be ok.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:19 pm 
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Trevor wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with a POL you aren't allowed to purchase ammunition for the rifle, correct? So you may be given a firearm, or an air gun that is above 500 fps but cannot in any way use said rifle. Also- isn't there a one firearm limit? So you can own just one rifle with a POL?


You can buy ammo with POL and you can own as many firearms as you like (non-restricted of course).

Wayne


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