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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:26 pm 
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u were quick on the draw- quoting me before my edit went through!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Trevor wrote:
u were quick on the draw- quoting me before my edit went through!


I hunt grouse....have to be quick on the draw :D


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:40 pm 
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Really? :shock: ..... how many on this forum have airguns that go over 500, (illegally) and have been called out on it? I'm not talking 650 or more, but just over 500. Have had their airgun confiscated, tested, and have been charged? Does not temp. and pellet weight affect fp. as well? I realize, ignorance of the the law is no excuse, but really? :roll: Meanwhile, some kid directly behind my house (Edmonton school yard/field) shoots off a 22 pistol to show off to his girlfriend, or buds 3 or 4 times a year.Early weekend mornings. Phone the Cops every time it happens.... they came out once. :rolleyes: But I know if I shot my Alecto in my backyard,SWAT would probably show up :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:11 pm 
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Posts: 841
Location: Nova Scotia
Wayne361 wrote:
Penage Guy wrote:
I don't know what the "law" would say. If you get a sub-500 fps HW and change the spring, you would have "acquired" a PAL-rated gun, something you didn't previously have. Would it be any different from building an over 500 fps gun from scratch, so to speak, as some people have done? I don't know if the constabulary would wrestle with the semantics or simply lay gun-related charges. When in doubt it is often wise to err on the safe side.


But a PAL rated gun is ok to own by someone with a POL... :roll: It is literally a "which came first the chicken or the egg?" type scenerio. POL guy buys sub 500 gun and buys a spring to boost power. Now he legally owns a firearm under the terms of the POL. hahahaha....

Always err on the side of caution and get PAL...100% agree but the law is rather silly at the time being.

Wayne


"POL guy buys sub 500 gun and buys a spring to boost power. Now he legally owns a firearm under the terms of the POL"
Guy can not acquire a firearm with a POL by any means so he now unlawfully owns a firearm.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:43 pm 
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Watertown wrote:
Wayne361 wrote:
Penage Guy wrote:
I don't know what the "law" would say. If you get a sub-500 fps HW and change the spring, you would have "acquired" a PAL-rated gun, something you didn't previously have. Would it be any different from building an over 500 fps gun from scratch, so to speak, as some people have done? I don't know if the constabulary would wrestle with the semantics or simply lay gun-related charges. When in doubt it is often wise to err on the safe side.


But a PAL rated gun is ok to own by someone with a POL... :roll: It is literally a "which came first the chicken or the egg?" type scenerio. POL guy buys sub 500 gun and buys a spring to boost power. Now he legally owns a firearm under the terms of the POL. hahahaha....

Always err on the side of caution and get PAL...100% agree but the law is rather silly at the time being.

Wayne


"POL guy buys sub 500 gun and buys a spring to boost power. Now he legally owns a firearm under the terms of the POL"
Guy can not acquire a firearm with a POL by any means so he now unlawfully owns a firearm.[/quote

Not arguing but POL allows him to possess a firearm. How he aquired is the grey area. A modification isnt acquisition. Thus how can individual be charged?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:09 pm 
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rickralph wrote:
Really? :shock: ..... how many on this forum have airguns that go over 500, (illegally) and have been called out on it? I'm not talking 650 or more, but just over 500. Have had their airgun confiscated, tested, and have been charged? Does not temp. and pellet weight affect fp. as well? I realize, ignorance of the the law is no excuse, but really? :roll: Meanwhile, some kid directly behind my house (Edmonton school yard/field) shoots off a 22 pistol to show off to his girlfriend, or buds 3 or 4 times a year.Early weekend mornings. Phone the Cops every time it happens.... they came out once. :rolleyes: But I know if I shot my Alecto in my backyard,SWAT would probably show up :lol:



Typically the authorities just go by what the manufacturer rating is, but police friends of mine (some of them actually know the firearms laws!) say that if they come across something they think has been modified they would confiscate it for testing. For the Weihrauch there are no markings- they are exactly the same on the outside so I don't know how law enforcement would know the difference.

Having said that- the laws are clear- if you have something shooting over 500fps you are shooting a firearm and the laws don't differentiate between a .50bmg and your 550fps air gun. It just isn't worth it and even if you don't end up getting convicted it will cost you a whole of money and time to fight the charges- discharging a firearm, possession of a firearm without a license... there are lots of things you could get charged with. You may feel ok rolling the dice, but it could be a big price to pay if something happens...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:16 am 
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Location: Northeastern Ontario
Wayne361: "Not arguing but POL allows him to possess a firearm. How he aquired is the grey area. A modification isnt acquisition. Thus how can individual be charged?"

Maybe you're not arguing. The point is that if a sub-500 rifle is changed to a PAL rifle, then somehow you have gotten one -- that is, "acquired" it. (Remember the "A" in PAL.) This would apply even to guns caused to appear magically, conjured from nowhere. Regarding the final question, the individual can easily be charged. A police officer lays the charge and the Crown prosecutes it. This might set the precedent you desire, if one is needed (the law may not be as "grey" as you think; maybe this situation has already been through the courts).


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:19 am 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
I have been through the argument with the RCMP over acquisition with POL/FAC(PAL same thing) many years ago and is it an argument you would lose in court, believe me. Changing the spring is no different than me building a ML pistol in the basement, except it took me a whole 24 hours of straight work, then trying to get it registered, afterall, it was a restricted firearm.

At the time I legally owned over a dozen all on the POL. They MADE me get an FAC(PAL) because MAKING/BUILDING something I did not have in possession prior - was "acquiring it" in the eyes of the law (they have a point) - as stated by the third NCO joining the argument - "Daryl - we all see your point but you would lose this argument in court - just get an FAC and be done with it". I did.

With the air rifle - yes - you'd get away with it - but the fact remains it is not a legal acquisition, which is the argument here.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:51 am 
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Good dialogue guys. Also to clear up any misconceptions I have stated twice that PAL is the way to go bottom line so I am no way "rolling the dice" I have my PAL. I have also advised others to do the same and make sure you know the law upfront so no lawbreaking is occuring on your part.
I was simply pointing out how silly and "grey" certain provisions in the law are. In fact I think Weihrauch is almost baiting people in selling "Canadian" version guns of their main lineup. How simple is it to switch out a spring....that is a rhetorica question, because its stupid simple. It simply makes it too easy for someone who is lazy/cheap/unethical etc to aquire a PAL gun. Now Weihrauch is simply going to say we are making guns available for those that wish to own sub 500 guns and we are reacting to market conditions etc. And they very well might be. But the window of opportunity for abuse has been opened very wide IMO.
And for those that think only evil/unethical people would break the law, who here drives 90 in an 80 zone?

Wayne


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:29 pm
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Location: Okanagan,BC
Wayne361 wrote:
Good dialogue guys. Also to clear up any misconceptions I have stated twice that PAL is the way to go bottom line so I am no way "rolling the dice" I have my PAL. I have also advised others to do the same and make sure you know the law upfront so no lawbreaking is occuring on your part.
I was simply pointing out how silly and "grey" certain provisions in the law are. In fact I think Weihrauch is almost baiting people in selling "Canadian" version guns of their main lineup. How simple is it to switch out a spring....that is a rhetorica question, because its stupid simple. It simply makes it too easy for someone who is lazy/cheap/unethical etc to aquire a PAL gun. Now Weihrauch is simply going to say we are making guns available for those that wish to own sub 500 guns and we are reacting to market conditions etc. And they very well might be. But the window of opportunity for abuse has been opened very wide IMO.
And for those that think only evil/unethical people would break the law, who here drives 90 in an 80 zone?

Wayne


You have made your point several times over - we can all agree that more than a few laws here in Canada regarding air guns are non-nonsensical and would be best gone away.

Have you not beaten this topic to death by now?

:?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:39 am 
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wllm995 wrote:
Wayne361 wrote:
Good dialogue guys. Also to clear up any misconceptions I have stated twice that PAL is the way to go bottom line so I am no way "rolling the dice" I have my PAL. I have also advised others to do the same and make sure you know the law upfront so no lawbreaking is occuring on your part.
I was simply pointing out how silly and "grey" certain provisions in the law are. In fact I think Weihrauch is almost baiting people in selling "Canadian" version guns of their main lineup. How simple is it to switch out a spring....that is a rhetorica question, because its stupid simple. It simply makes it too easy for someone who is lazy/cheap/unethical etc to aquire a PAL gun. Now Weihrauch is simply going to say we are making guns available for those that wish to own sub 500 guns and we are reacting to market conditions etc. And they very well might be. But the window of opportunity for abuse has been opened very wide IMO.
And for those that think only evil/unethical people would break the law, who here drives 90 in an 80 zone?

Wayne


You have made your point several times over - we can all agree that more than a few laws here in Canada regarding air guns are non-nonsensical and would be best gone away.

Have you not beaten this topic to death by now?

:?


No I was just getting started :) Feel free to avoid this thread in the future .....as with all threads nobody is forcing you to read them....


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:12 pm 
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Location: Okanagan,BC
Wayne361 wrote:
wllm995 wrote:
Wayne361 wrote:

Wayne


You have made your point several times over - we can all agree that more than a few laws here in Canada regarding air guns are non-nonsensical and would be best gone away.

Have you not beaten this topic to death by now?

:?


No I was just getting started :) Feel free to avoid this thread in the future .....as with all threads nobody is forcing you to read them....


Just expressing my opinion...

:D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:17 pm 
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You have made your point several times over - we can all agree that more than a few laws here in Canada regarding air guns are non-nonsensical and would be best gone away.

Have you not beaten this topic to death by now?

:?[/quote]

No I was just getting started :) Feel free to avoid this thread in the future .....as with all threads nobody is forcing you to read them....[/quote]

Just expressing my opinion...

:D[/quote]

Me too :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:54 pm
Posts: 2411
Location: Northeastern Ontario
Wayne361 wrote:
I think Weihrauch is almost baiting people in selling "Canadian" version guns of their main lineup. How simple is it to switch out a spring....that is a rhetorica question, because its stupid simple. It simply makes it too easy for someone who is lazy/cheap/unethical etc to aquire a PAL gun. Now Weihrauch is simply going to say we are making guns available for those that wish to own sub 500 guns and we are reacting to market conditions etc.

You think Weihrauch is "baiting" people? Why? This manufacturer is not the only one making airguns for the Canadian market that shoot under 500 fps. There are many makes of airguns that are non-PAL (i.e. sub-500 fps). The fact that they are "495 fps" or something similar is precisely so that they can be sold to Canadians with or without a PAL. It's likely that most air rifles that are sub-500 fps can have a spring swapped to make them more powerful. The dealers who sell "Canadian" versions of HW guns are probably the only ones in the world that sell HWs that shoot at sub-500 fps. Weihrauch is not "baiting" anyone.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:22 pm 
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A POL user can borrow a firearm for an unlimited amount of time.

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