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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:29 pm 
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Location: Northeastern Ontario
AirForceAddict wrote:
A POL user can borrow a firearm for an unlimited amount of time.

Where are you going with this point?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:13 pm
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He didn't acquire it, he borrowed it.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:43 pm 
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Wayne361 wrote:
Barfman wrote:
Sorry, I'm not quite following...


Sorry Barf....will try to better explain my position. There were two classes of Canadian gun licensing 1) POL (Possession Only License) = can own non-restricted firearms but cant purchase new ones. 2) PAL (Possession Aquisition License) = can own and purchase non-restricted firearms. There was also the now defunct Long Gun Registry where owners had to register their long guns. i.e. gov't had knowledge of who owned which guns based on make, model and serial number. It would be an offense to be in possession of a gun not registered to you. Now that the long gun registry is gone (thank you Conservatives very much) people can still renew their POL but I believe if you are a new gun owner you have to get your PAL (I could be wrong as I was around in the POL days) in order to possess/buy. I am ignorant of newer laws since I have PAL but know people are renewing their POL licenses of old. That being said if someone with a PAL purchased a >500 fps pellet gun and gave it to a POL holder their would be no issue that I can see as POL license holder is fully legal to own rifles, shotguns. Since there is no long gun registry the gov't would have no idea POL owner was in possession of new gun and would be legal to possess under terms of POL. Hope I am making this clear. Same as if POL holder purchased one of the new Canadian Weihrauch guns and converted to >500 fps gun.

Hope this is clear as mud :)

Wayne



The info highlighted in red is flat out wrong. With a PAL or POL, you can be in possession of any firearm you are licensed for (be it prohibited, restricted, or non-restricted.) It would be perfectly legal, for a POL holder, to purchase a non-restricted and modify it above the threshold. He did not acquire it, he is only in possession of it.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:10 pm 
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Location: Hamilton
Penage Guy wrote:
Wayne361 wrote:
I think Weihrauch is almost baiting people in selling "Canadian" version guns of their main lineup. How simple is it to switch out a spring....that is a rhetorica question, because its stupid simple. It simply makes it too easy for someone who is lazy/cheap/unethical etc to aquire a PAL gun. Now Weihrauch is simply going to say we are making guns available for those that wish to own sub 500 guns and we are reacting to market conditions etc.

You think Weihrauch is "baiting" people? Why? This manufacturer is not the only one making airguns for the Canadian market that shoot under 500 fps. There are many makes of airguns that are non-PAL (i.e. sub-500 fps). The fact that they are "495 fps" or something similar is precisely so that they can be sold to Canadians with or without a PAL. It's likely that most air rifles that are sub-500 fps can have a spring swapped to make them more powerful. The dealers who sell "Canadian" versions of HW guns are probably the only ones in the world that sell HWs that shoot at sub-500 fps. Weihrauch is not "baiting" anyone.


We should consider ourselves lucky enough that some companies (Weirauch being one of them) go out of their way to make their products meet Canadian regulations
Some companies just don't see the value in modifying (detuning) their products so that we can get them in Canada

Im not sure but I would think that a valid PAL would probably be required to purchase upgraded PAL parts such as mainsprings??

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:35 pm
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Location: Alberta Canada
mike87gt wrote:
Penage Guy wrote:
Wayne361 wrote:
I think Weihrauch is almost baiting people in selling "Canadian" version guns of their main lineup. How simple is it to switch out a spring....that is a rhetorica question, because its stupid simple. It simply makes it too easy for someone who is lazy/cheap/unethical etc to aquire a PAL gun. Now Weihrauch is simply going to say we are making guns available for those that wish to own sub 500 guns and we are reacting to market conditions etc.

You think Weihrauch is "baiting" people? Why? This manufacturer is not the only one making airguns for the Canadian market that shoot under 500 fps. There are many makes of airguns that are non-PAL (i.e. sub-500 fps). The fact that they are "495 fps" or something similar is precisely so that they can be sold to Canadians with or without a PAL. It's likely that most air rifles that are sub-500 fps can have a spring swapped to make them more powerful. The dealers who sell "Canadian" versions of HW guns are probably the only ones in the world that sell HWs that shoot at sub-500 fps. Weihrauch is not "baiting" anyone.


We should consider ourselves lucky enough that some companies (Weirauch being one of them) go out of their way to make their products meet Canadian regulations
Some companies just don't see the value in modifying (detuning) their products so that we can get them in CanadaThere is also Hatsan and Diana that have done the same

Im not sure but I would think that a valid PAL would probably be required to purchase upgraded PAL parts such as mainsprings??
This has been a matter of whether or not the vendor asks for it. I can go and purchase PB parts other than breaches or pistol frames without a PAL. Same stands for reloading components, they can be purchased without a PAL. Just my experience here in Western Canada.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:13 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
Right on the components, Kim - PAL or POL license not 'normally' needed.

Unless the POL law has been changed (if so, when?), you cannot legally borrow nor can you lend a firearm unless you are in possession of a valid PAL.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
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Location: P.G. B.C.
AirForceAddict wrote:
He did not acquire it, he is only in possession of it.


Like I said - you would lose that in court - but - they would have to prove you altered it to turn it into a firearm. Trust me on this - you would lose - and of course, the search and seizure of all firearms you already have would have transpired- have you seen them throw people's rifles and shotguns into a Police Pickup box - or the trunk of a car - I have - both. The laws are stupid - they are onerous and quite ridiculous, however they interpret them as THEY see fit and let the courts decide - stocks all chewed to hell - no compensation, nadda - sorry - you should have 'broken the law' as THAT policeman saw it.

A PAL eliminates a lot of problems.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:28 pm 
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Location: Nova Scotia
Wayne 361: do you currently have a POL?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:27 pm
Posts: 93
AirForceAddict wrote:
Wayne361 wrote:
Barfman wrote:
Sorry, I'm not quite following...


Sorry Barf....will try to better explain my position. There were two classes of Canadian gun licensing 1) POL (Possession Only License) = can own non-restricted firearms but cant purchase new ones. 2) PAL (Possession Aquisition License) = can own and purchase non-restricted firearms. There was also the now defunct Long Gun Registry where owners had to register their long guns. i.e. gov't had knowledge of who owned which guns based on make, model and serial number. It would be an offense to be in possession of a gun not registered to you. Now that the long gun registry is gone (thank you Conservatives very much) people can still renew their POL but I believe if you are a new gun owner you have to get your PAL (I could be wrong as I was around in the POL days) in order to possess/buy. I am ignorant of newer laws since I have PAL but know people are renewing their POL licenses of old. That being said if someone with a PAL purchased a >500 fps pellet gun and gave it to a POL holder their would be no issue that I can see as POL license holder is fully legal to own rifles, shotguns. Since there is no long gun registry the gov't would have no idea POL owner was in possession of new gun and would be legal to possess under terms of POL. Hope I am making this clear. Same as if POL holder purchased one of the new Canadian Weihrauch guns and converted to >500 fps gun.

Hope this is clear as mud :)

Wayne



The info highlighted in red is flat out wrong. With a PAL or POL, you can be in possession of any firearm you are licensed for (be it prohibited, restricted, or non-restricted.) It would be perfectly legal, for a POL holder, to purchase a non-restricted and modify it above the threshold. He did not acquire it, he is only in possession of it.


You had to read the context of that quote you highlighted. I was stating under the old now defunct long gun registry. Now it isnt an issue....
btw I tend to agree with rest of your statement


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:27 pm
Posts: 93
Trevor wrote:
Wayne 361: do you currently have a POL?


No Trevor I think I have stated 2-3 times I have my PAL. I was simply stating what I see as "gray" areas in the laws.

Wayne


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:13 pm
Posts: 201
Daryl wrote:
AirForceAddict wrote:
He did not acquire it, he is only in possession of it.


Like I said - you would lose that in court - but - they would have to prove you altered it to turn it into a firearm. Trust me on this - you would lose - and of course, the search and seizure of all firearms you already have would have transpired- have you seen them throw people's rifles and shotguns into a Police Pickup box - or the trunk of a car - I have - both. The laws are stupid - they are onerous and quite ridiculous, however they interpret them as THEY see fit and let the courts decide - stocks all chewed to hell - no compensation, nadda - sorry - you should have 'broken the law' as THAT policeman saw it.

A PAL eliminates a lot of problems.


BS. They would have to prove you acquired it without a valid firearms license. With a POL you are allowed to possess it legally so what charge would you lose on exactly?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:13 pm
Posts: 201
Wayne361 wrote:
You had to read the context of that quote you highlighted. I was stating under the old now defunct long gun registry. Now it isnt an issue....
btw I tend to agree with rest of your statement


I still don't understand. The old defunct registry has absolutely nothing to do with what you are allowed to possess, it just kept track of what you had registered. I have guns in my possession, not purchased or owned by me. Illegal, no, I'm allowed to have them in my possession. They just have to be of the class covered by my license. With a POL, I can borrow a firearm from anyone and have it in my possession legally. There is no time limit.

From the RCMP site...

A Possession Only Licence (POL) is valid for five years and allows firearm owners to possess firearms, including borrowed firearms, of any class their licence allows. Restricted or prohibited firearms require a registration certificate from the Canadian Firearms Program (CFP). The POL does not allow for the acquisition of more firearms, only the Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) does.

-END.

You can go to a gunshop with your buddy that has a PAL, get him to purchase a firearm you want, walk out with it and borrow it for the rest of your life. Totally legal.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:27 pm
Posts: 93
Penage Guy wrote:
Wayne361 wrote:
I think Weihrauch is almost baiting people in selling "Canadian" version guns of their main lineup. How simple is it to switch out a spring....that is a rhetorica question, because its stupid simple. It simply makes it too easy for someone who is lazy/cheap/unethical etc to aquire a PAL gun. Now Weihrauch is simply going to say we are making guns available for those that wish to own sub 500 guns and we are reacting to market conditions etc.

You think Weihrauch is "baiting" people? Why? This manufacturer is not the only one making airguns for the Canadian market that shoot under 500 fps. There are many makes of airguns that are non-PAL (i.e. sub-500 fps). The fact that they are "495 fps" or something similar is precisely so that they can be sold to Canadians with or without a PAL. It's likely that most air rifles that are sub-500 fps can have a spring swapped to make them more powerful. The dealers who sell "Canadian" versions of HW guns are probably the only ones in the world that sell HWs that shoot at sub-500 fps. Weihrauch is not "baiting" anyone.


I respect your opinion....and as such it is just that....an "opinion" We all have them...my opinion varies slightly from yours. I said they are "almost"....I certainly have no proof and cannot magically enter their brains to deduce their intentions. Thus its up to speculation. I personally think it is a very good marketing/sales ploy. Yes there are demand for sub 500 guns....they meet it i.e. more sales....there is also demand for guns that cannot be aquired without a PAL....they are also meeting that demand i.e. more sales. The only caveat is a slight modification that a 12 year old could perform.
As a business they want to maximize sales/profits and I personally think this is a slick way of doing it. Whether they intended to do so or not .....its smart business.

Wayne


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:27 pm
Posts: 93
AirForceAddict wrote:
Wayne361 wrote:
You had to read the context of that quote you highlighted. I was stating under the old now defunct long gun registry. Now it isnt an issue....
btw I tend to agree with rest of your statement


I still don't understand. The old defunct registry has absolutely nothing to do with what you are allowed to possess, it just kept track of what you had registered. I have guns in my possession, not purchased or owned by me. Illegal, no, I'm allowed to have them in my possession. They just have to be of the class covered by my license. With a POL, I can borrow a firearm from anyone and have it in my possession legally. There is no time limit.

From the RCMP site...

A Possession Only Licence (POL) is valid for five years and allows firearm owners to possess firearms, including borrowed firearms, of any class their licence allows. Restricted or prohibited firearms require a registration certificate from the Canadian Firearms Program (CFP). The POL does not allow for the acquisition of more firearms, only the Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) does.

-END.

You can go to a gunshop with your buddy that has a PAL, get him to purchase a firearm you want, walk out with it and borrow it for the rest of your life. Totally legal.


OK...my fault for not being more specific. You are correct. I meant if you were in possession and they couldnt trace. Sorry I knew in my brain what I meant hahahaha....thus undermining the whole long gun registry.

POLs will be converted to PALs under the new legislation anyhow....so a non issue very soon.

Wayne


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