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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:48 am 
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Location: Vancouver
I've been struggling with the trigger of my 2240 carbine for some time. The standard stuff about polishing the sear and other rubbing steel faces helped a little, but in a way actually made it feel worse, as there were very smooth parts of the pull but also a couple of relatively rough spots. The last mod I'd done involved a low-friction plastic shoe on the front end of the sear arm where the trigger pushes it upward. Helped a bit more, but still gritty. Shooting at Mission on the 29th was a blast even though it rained, a bunch of hours of fun plinking, but I found myself going again and again to the Atomic carbine as the trigger on that is just so much lighter and so smooth.

So in the evening I got busy searching for mods again, knowing there are a host of variations as people try to sort out these awful triggers. And I found this thread:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/t ... 20finished
Glenn Davis, a Texan airgunner, has modified his trigger using little pins, first drilling into his sear then soldering in a wire and bending the end to make contact with the trigger much closer to its fulcrum, dramatically increasing leverage on the sear. I liked this, but decided to do mine a bit differently.

So I pinched my sear between two pieces of aluminum, just ahead of the hole, and stuck that in a vise. This prevented heat from getting to the business end of the sear, which must be very hard to resist wear on the hammer. I heated the exposed end to dark cherry then let it cool on its own, then drilled into the end with a very small bit. I dug through my parts boxes and found a bit of some steel I knew stayed rock hard after heating (no idea what it is) and polished it a little, dipped it in boric acid and tapped it into the hole. Then I brazed this pin into place and cleaned it up and polished the tip rounded. Soldering would have been fine I guess but I wanted a solid mount with no risk of slipping loose some day.

Next I drilled a similar hole into the crotch of the right angle in the back of the trigger at an angle such that a pin installed there would meet the end of the new sear pin. I found a small nail with a thin, flat head and chucked it in a drill and filed down part of the shank until it would fit the hole, clipped this off, pushed it into the hole and soldered it into place. It's a compression stress on this one and no risk of it coming out so no need to heat it up enough for brazing. I then polished the head neatly and filed down the sides of the head until flush with the trigger body, then put the thing together. Here's a brief looping animated GIF shot with my phone (Samsung sure packs neat software into their camera suite!) showing the function. I figured motion might help make obvious the extremely improved mechanical advantage of such a setup. Contact surfaces are minimal and there's no risk of side-slippage thanks to my Derek Vinyard milled aluminum cover plate. I had long-since disabled the safety as it was just annoying and not terribly reliable, so I cut off and polished the area in this cover plate which had been made to contain the safety spring and bearing. This made just enough room for the nail to move freely.

Image

The result, well, it kind of blew my mind. I had honestly given up on the Crosman trigger. The Mission outing had me hitting 1" knock-down paddles on steel targets about 1/3 of the time or more from standing at 30 to 50 metres, but even when I'd sometimes hit 3 in a row, sometime in the series would be a clunky, gritty trigger pull which would just throw my shot a country mile off target. I prefer not to shoot rested if I can help it so a smooth trigger is essential. Well now I don't have that excuse for my misses any more! This thing is easily as light as the trigger on the Atomic and has not the slightest trace of roughness. A wonderful trigger! While the drilling in such narrow pieces of steel is a little bit tricky it's easily within the scope of anyone with decent drill skills. A drill press would help with alignment... but it was late by the time I was drilling and I didn't want to crank up that noisy thing. Anyway, hope this helps if anyone's searching for ways to get their 22xx trigger working not just incrementally better but radically so. It's almost too light, but I like a light trigger, being used to about a 520 gram pull on my Pardini K12.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:12 am 
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Wow! I like this set-up. I will be doing the same to mine Gerard. Thanks for the animated gif.akes this a lot easier to understand.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:38 am 
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Looks like a great solution albeit a bit winded in the explanation when you have that gif that says it all. Great job.
I have also made a vast improvement in one of my 2240 triggers, but considerably easier to do than your approach, but likely not as light a pull as your Idea. In your animation, notice the contact point of trigger and sear ? Well I simply heated the trigger and peened/bent, the round end in and up slightly, so the contact point was at the end of the sear. Then the normal polishing and it is very nice (for me) now.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:10 am 
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Heh, that has to be the best use of an animated GIF to grace our forum in quite some time :)

I built a simplified version of the p-rod trigger group for my 2240. It's two-stage fully adjustable and has proved reliable. I thought I'd posted about it before, but I can't find it now. I'll have to take some photos next time I have the pistol apart.

I currently have it set up for 2 stage, but during testing I noticed I got great results with the second stage backed out, giving one very light longish stage with no indication of when it would break. Makes me wonder if going back to single stage for target pistols might actually be a good idea.

Jim


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:26 am 
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Had different ways of doing that 2240 trigger business but after a time, just went for the two stage adjustable sear after market fix.
http://scopesandammo.com/storefront/pro ... sear-p-324
Now the trigger is like IZH 46M.
Yes, it is a bit pricy but the pistol cost much more than a stock 2240.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:43 am 
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Location: Vancouver
joe hickey wrote:
Looks like a great solution albeit a bit winded in the explanation when you have that gif that says it all.

Yeah, I tend towards the long-winded end of the scale... But my take on it is that there are basically 2 kinds of folks when it comes to mods; those for whom a picture will probably be enough (me) or a short video if relevant, and those for whom a step-by-step explanation is necessary. Back in the days when I did extensive beta testing for a bunch of software developers (over 100 developers during about 5 or 6 years) I was often thanked for my verbose and concise explanations of errors and the conditions in which those errors occurred. Developers love that kind of detail. Saves them many hours of hunting through various explanations for an error which is poorly reported. Similarly when I reviewed hardware and software online I was thorough, and it was helpful to a number of people. For myself, I'm guilty of shrugging and saying 'too long; didn't read' or 'tl:dr' a lot of the time. More a visual and hands-on guy.

EverHopeful wrote:
I currently have it set up for 2 stage, but during testing I noticed I got great results with the second stage backed out, giving one very light longish stage with no indication of when it would break. Makes me wonder if going back to single stage for target pistols might actually be a good idea.

I've preferred single stage and very short travel triggers since I went from a Gamo Center to a Baikal 46m for 10 metre air pistol. I've played with various configurations on every pistol I've had, but each trigger has ended up being as short as I can make the travel and always single stage as this gives me the best results. I know a lot of shooters swear by the two-stage, even going for a relatively heavy 1st stage then a very light 2nd. Can't stand that. I tend to get a lot of shots leaving early with that sort of setup.

2240mod; Yeah, that's another option. I made one like that last month, but realised on fitting it that it wasn't usable in my case. I had a momentary lapse while modifying the main tube a couple of months back. I meant to lengthen the slot for the hammer pin by about 3/8", as I'd shortened my valve stem by about that amount, to make for a longer travel for the lightened hammer. Unfortunately I carved out the sear slot by that amount towards the front... bit of dyslexia in action there. So a 'super sear' has no place to rock against the main tube during that part of its cycle. Falls straight into the tube ahead of the sear. From what I've read they're quite good sears. I didn't feel like heating the main tube to braze in a piece of steel to replace the bit I carved out.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:08 pm 
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There are quite a few deferent cool and simple ways to mod the trigger on the 2240 and yours is pretty cool thanks for sharing Gerard 8) :wink:
the trigger on the 2240 is probably one of the easiest to mod and improve, most of the ones I've done, including my backpacker have been significantly improved and I didn't need any major tools...
just some simple deferent grit sand paper for some polishing on the sear and trigger contact and hammer and then compressing the trigger spring between your finger to shorten its tension but in the pic below I just replaced it with a lighter spring and then adding a plastic cap on the spring as in your case...but I personally like the spent rimfire shell....and your pretty much good to go... no gritty feel, very light smooth short single stage trigger, never had a problem doing it this way I've had people tell me they love the way I do my trigger setup...simple and very effective. the one I described you can do in a couple minutes of your time....maybe its just me but in this case I find simple is better 8)

here is the simple setup.

Image

I received this trigger assembly from vitaly with some crosman parts he was selling a while back, based on p-rod trigger scheme its a great setup and works well but I didnt see much deference then the simple mod I did as far as performance and feel go's.

Image

even has a trigger travel stop screw...

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:59 pm 
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Location: Vancouver
I did a lot of the common modifications prior to the one I did last evening. Polished all mating surfaces including chucking the hammer in my lathe and polishing the front bevelled edge, greased everything with moly, shortened the sear spring, tried a spent .22" casing with the back end nicely polished before replacing that with a plastic plug. Still very gritty feeling in my case. So I'd recently added a slippery plastic shoe to the sear's front end to further reduce rubbing:

Image

Didn't work. Actually seemed to make it worse at times, definitely more inconsistent. Hence my further investigation and the current modifications. I did some shooting this afternoon at home and found the trigger almost, but not quite too easy. It'll take a few sessions to get used to not squeezing the heck out of my 2240 trigger as I'd become used to doing. I guess each case is different? This is the only 2240 I've worked on so maybe mine was an exceptionally bad set of parts.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:16 pm 
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Gerard what is that in the grip shell looks like some kind of epoxy or glue ?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:31 pm 
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Location: Vancouver
Hot glue. I filled both plastic grip panels with it to get rid of the cheap plastic noise. A temporary solution as I'll eventually get some nice wooden grips on there as well as a forestock to replace the neoprene wrap around the main tube and HiPAC.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:54 pm 
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Location: Central West River Nova Scotia
GerardSamija wrote:
joe hickey wrote:
Looks like a great solution albeit a bit winded in the explanation when you have that gif that says it all.

Yeah, I tend towards the long-winded end of the scale... But my take on it is that there are basically 2 kinds of folks when it comes to mods; those for whom a picture will probably be enough (me) or a short video if relevant, and those for whom a step-by-step explanation is necessary. Back in the days when I did extensive beta testing for a bunch of software developers (over 100 developers during about 5 or 6 years) I was often thanked for my verbose and concise explanations of errors and the conditions in which those errors occurred. Developers love that kind of detail. Saves them many hours of hunting through various explanations for an error which is poorly reported. Similarly when I reviewed hardware and software online I was thorough, and it was helpful to a number of people. For myself, I'm guilty of shrugging and saying 'too long; didn't read' or 'tl:dr' a lot of the time. More a visual and hands-on guy.

EverHopeful wrote:
I currently have it set up for 2 stage, but during testing I noticed I got great results with the second stage backed out, giving one very light longish stage with no indication of when it would break. Makes me wonder if going back to single stage for target pistols might actually be a good idea.

I've preferred single stage and very short travel triggers since I went from a Gamo Center to a Baikal 46m for 10 metre air pistol. I've played with various configurations on every pistol I've had, but each trigger has ended up being as short as I can make the travel and always single stage as this gives me the best results. I know a lot of shooters swear by the two-stage, even going for a relatively heavy 1st stage then a very light 2nd. Can't stand that. I tend to get a lot of shots leaving early with that sort of setup.

2240mod; Yeah, that's another option. I made one like that last month, but realised on fitting it that it wasn't usable in my case. I had a momentary lapse while modifying the main tube a couple of months back. I meant to lengthen the slot for the hammer pin by about 3/8", as I'd shortened my valve stem by about that amount, to make for a longer travel for the lightened hammer. Unfortunately I carved out the sear slot by that amount towards the front... bit of dyslexia in action there. So a 'super sear' has no place to rock against the main tube during that part of its cycle. Falls straight into the tube ahead of the sear. From what I've read they're quite good sears. I didn't feel like heating the main tube to braze in a piece of steel to replace the bit I carved out.
Even you explanation about long winded
descriptions was long winded. Dont get upset with me I'm just razzin. its my nature.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:04 pm 
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joe hickey wrote:
Even you explanation about long winded descriptions was long winded. Dont get upset with me I'm just razzin. its my nature.

No problem! Hey, I grew up with a Nova Scotian for a stepfather. He grew up in a tough part of Truro, raised in a junkyard then joined the carnivals at 14. His 'razzin' was fun, but nothing compared to my dad's Croatian version, learned during WWII with Italians and Germans and a few of his own people dying all around him. Between them I managed to grow a fairly tough skin. Again I'm being wordy. Just my nature. Funny though, just yesterday someone was cautioning me about Easterners having short fuses... I have never noticed that. Seems to me folks from your neck of the woods are a pretty calm bunch. Much easier to deal with than Torontonians anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:12 pm 
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GerardSamija wrote:
Hot glue. I filled both plastic grip panels with it to get rid of the cheap plastic noise. A temporary solution as I'll eventually get some nice wooden grips on there as well as a forestock to replace the neoprene wrap around the main tube and HiPAC.

that is a good solution, but definitely nothing beats the wood grips 8)
you making your own wood grips Gerard

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:14 pm 
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Location: Vancouver
Nah. Got too much work on my plate for making grips just now. The grips from http://www.dlairgun.com/Accessories/YHZ/ are nice enough to start with then just some carving to get them feeling right.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:15 am 
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GerardSamija wrote:
joe hickey wrote:
Even you explanation about long winded descriptions was long winded. Dont get upset with me I'm just razzin. its my nature.

No problem! Hey, I grew up with a Nova Scotian for a stepfather. He grew up in a tough part of Truro, raised in a junkyard then joined the carnivals at 14. His 'razzin' was fun, but nothing compared to my dad's Croatian version, learned during WWII with Italians and Germans and a few of his own people dying all around him. Between them I managed to grow a fairly tough skin. Again I'm being wordy. Just my nature. Funny though, just yesterday someone was cautioning me about Easterners having short fuses... I have never noticed that. Seems to me folks from your neck of the woods are a pretty calm bunch. Much easier to deal with than Torontonians anyway.

Glad you understand. In fact I have difficulty being rude but cant help myself being sarcastic. My wife says its it my only fault. And just for information about easterners. I have never heard about us being short fused. I'm originally a Newfoundlander and most Newfs I know are very easy to get along with, however those that arent, are short fused to the extreme. Anyway, sorry about going off topic here. Cheers

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