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 Post subject: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Eastern Townships
Is there a way to seal the plastic bolt on the M4-177? I know it is identical to the 760 bolt, and I remember seeing a post on another forum, about a year ago, where the guy said it could be done, but I don't remember where I saw that, nor how it was done. Is there a way to put a O-ring on the bolt? I know it's a plastic, ''childish'' carbine, but I love it, it's light and accurate, and yes, the child in me loves the look!


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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 12:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:24 am
Posts: 1545
Location: Calgary
airmec wrote:
I know it's a plastic, ''childish'' carbine, but I love it, it's light and accurate, and yes, the child in me loves the look!

And U R not alone. Quite a few here sees the value of this fun, accurate, differently styled rifle/carbine that offers a great 5 shot magazine and decent open sights. That is, at least those of us not ashamed to admit we own one. You'll find that the elite here wouldn't be caught dead touching one.

This little gem was my first (early teen years aside) and due to all that it offers, it got me hooked and opened to door to a lot more. Be warned the same could happen to you, this disease is very real and it sure didn't help we started out with a fine first machine.

Your man here is Hacked2Pieces. He's the 760 expert and has been known to have hacked a few M4s to pieces. If he doesn't come across this post, PM him.
Welcome to the forum.

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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 1:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:20 pm
Posts: 1549
Location: sherwood park
Who's elite here? anyone willing to call themselves elite and trash talk something like a 100$ pumper has issues. I love that gun. I also love my red Ryder bb gun and also love my Winchester 1894 Cheyenne carbine, ruger m77 and beat up runo .22
Elitists make Me laugh. Sorry for hijacking your thread.
I'll have A look at the bolt and see if there's an easy way to oring it, but it won't be Super easy. Probably take the bolt out and spin it on a lathe or drill and cut a groove with a file. At least that's one non elite way to do it. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 11:41 am 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Eastern Townships
Hi Joolz! Thanks for sharing your ''childhood'' joy. I believe one should never let go completely the child inside, it opens your mind ( and may provide a whole lot of fun :D ). Also thanks for the reference (and the welcome), I'll try to get in touch with that gentleman.

Killercrow, i always like a good comment, and yours is quite friendly! I had the idea that I may replace the magnet with a hard rubber plug since I won't be shooting BB's in that rifled barrel; the problem is that the bolt goes through the magazine, I have yet to figure it out. I have some big rig mud flaps to could be put to good use.

Greetings and happy shootin'!


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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:27 am
Posts: 2586
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
I own one, and am far from elitist- at least I think so :wink:

As for the M-4, let's not kid ourselves. Gun was mfg'd as cheaply as possible, except for the sights. At least a little thought went into them.

As for the rest of it, not much there that is modifiable- not with that tiny volume valve. It's one of those air guns~ take it for what it is (a fun, reasonably accurate little plinker), or leave it...

As for buying another- I'll let my grandson shoot this until it's finished, first. I even run the occasional 5 through it, just for chuckles.

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Eastern Townships
Doc Sharptail, except for that little bolt issue, I have no griefs against the M4. I bought it for having fun, with no excessive expectations, and as you said I take it for what it is. And yes, the sights do a good job, but I couldn't help, I bought a multi-reticle CenterPoint red and green sight, and also tried the 4x32 scope off of my Optimus, which gave real good results. I saw a post where the fellow said he cranked it up to over 900 fps; I doubt a little. Anyway I don't plan on modifying it, I have no PAL and I believe it's more reliable that way. Thanks for your comment!

Greetings


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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:14 pm
Posts: 427
Location: Surrey BC
I'm another big fan of this gun. Love the styling and simple functioning. I grew to hate the 10 pumps I found worked best for predicable power and accuracy. I would love a CO2 version of this gun. Might look into a tethered system hidden in a "rail" accessory. There may also be enough room under the forearm stock....

The issue I found with scopes and larger optics was the inherent flex on the receiver rail. A simple bump could throw it way off.

Still I can't say enough good things about this plinker. I got mine on sale at Canadian Tire a few years ago and at just over $75 with 500 pellets and Prellgun oil I have gotten my money out of it.

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Two Stoeger Arms X5 .177s (long story)
Crosman 2240 RedDot sight... awaiting further modification....
Crosman M4-177
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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Eastern Townships
Well said, NFG!


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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:27 am
Posts: 2586
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
I had a look at the M-4-.177 EVP that is available off the Crosman site.

If your bolt leaks, replacement should be a fairly simple matter.
Mine blows air without the magazine strip in place. I can detect no air loss as long as the magazine strip is in the gun.

Image

From what I can see of the bolt magnet on the end of the bolt, you should be able to fit a small O-ring on there- just a matter of sizing. I would suggest Princess Auto's cheapie 9.99 O-ring assortment set as a start. There's a few small ones in there that are at the "close to" range in size. If you are patient, an O-ring groove cut can be done with a bit of time and care.

I find 900 to be a bit of a stretch for this particular gun. Upper sixes, low 7's lead pellet with proper hammer and valve spring balancing would be about max attainable. I just don't feel that the construction of the gun is worth the effort.

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

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"Ain't no half-way"
-S.R.V.


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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 2:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
I've often considered buying that gun too, and still might. I'm not a pumper guy but I do have a 1377 and just bought a 1322 because fun is fun. So, I was thinking same thing about using a small O-ring, which apparently they cheeped out on. So I was thinking about the already mentioned groove and adding an O-ring, but it may not be so easy to make said groove, make it fit right, or be the correct spot. So what about taking a bolt from another gun that already has said O-ring and making that bolt fit your gun? Like maybe the one from a 1377. Buy a new M4 bolt and 1377 bolt, then cut the probe off the M4 and drill a hold into where the probe was sticking out, then insert the longer 1377 bolt into said hole..`. Not only do you have the perfect O-ring in the perfect position for sealing, but a better/stronger probe with a tip better shaped for pellets. Those flat faced magnets are not ideal with non-Crosman pellets, but the 1377 probe is better and can be shaped to be ideal for your favorite pells. Plus it'll be brass or steel depending on which you buy which has got to be better than the plastic one which I'd imagine can break and probably isn't straight.


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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:53 am 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Eastern Townships
Chevota, I've been thinking about that too but the problem is that the probe on the M4 is the same size as the pellet, and on the 1377 it is a bit bigger. On the 1377, there's a taper section before the actual barrel, which gives a sealing surface for the O-ring; on the M4 and the 760, there's also a small tapered section,but in order to take advantage of that, you'd had to have a bigger bolt, which may not go through the magazine. Probably a differently designed magazine would work with a bigger bolt, but the current plastic magazine ''side walls'' would become too thin if you re-bore it. The way I see it, you would need two flexible tabs to hold the pellet in magazine, opposite to each other, in order to let the bigger bolt go through. I'm giving myself headaches thinking about that design, but it's an interesting challenge!


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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
Oic. I just measured my bolt and it's .250", even the O-ring is ~.225. Oh well. So if your bolt is pretty much the size of the magazine hole and breech then I suppose an O-ring that ends up slightly larger is about your only option. I'm picturing a tiny one a few thou smaller OD than the breech that when in its groove is just a thou or two larger than the breech. Like .015/.020? I wouldn't want to mess with the magazine, too much hassle and issues. So I suppose I would consider finding a few tiny O-rings that might work, then cutting that groove in your bolt to fit one. I'm picturing chucking the magnet into a drill and spinning it slowly, then using a dremel to cut the groove? That may not be doable so I suppose the groove could be cut by hand using a Dremel.
Then back to a metal rod, maybe a brass/steel/alum rod that is the correct diameter chucked into a drill and the groove cut with a dremel or however, then inserting that rod into your block as described earlier?
I also wonder if one of their other guns has a bolt that fits. You know about their parts section right?
https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/ca ... s-Diagrams
Search or browse for guns, then open its parts.pdf. The bummer in your case is the pix are sketches and no dimensions. Better than nothing, and parts are super cheap. Well, they are for me in the US, CA not so sure. If the picture doesn't show an O-ring as a separate part on the bolt then it doesn't have one. I checked the old 760 which I had as a kid and has a brass bolt, but no O-ring :(
The older 1377 I have has a brass bolt so if you're willing you could sand it down and find a smaller O-ring. Same deal with the drill, chuck it in as a lathe and squeeze it with sandpaper. I suppose it would take a while to sand it down but just throwing ideas out there.


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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 1:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:24 am
Posts: 1545
Location: Calgary
Suppose an explanation is warranted: my reference to elite earlier has to do with the attitudes towards low cost guns here at this forum - not from everyone, of course, but it seems that anytime the subject comes up, someone has to show off his self-attained image of greatness by knocking it down. Here's such an example from a new user that inquired about a low cost gun, just last month - and near the bottom a reply by some elitist fool: topic67545.html

Now, perhaps this was intended as joke (of the poorest taste) or perhaps this guy was just drunk at the time. But I find this sort of comment inflammatory and adds nothing to the conversation, not to mention an insult to the OP and anyone else that doesn't sport a rifle that costs several hundreds (or do these HWs run in the thousands?). All it does is discourage new members to participate. In fact since I first came here a few months ago I have noticed that a great number of then new users have disappeared. Folks starting out in this sport may not all be able to start off with a PCP or a HW as their first guns. But I suppose this logic is out the window whenever the opportunity arises to dish someone based solely on how much he spent (or is considering spending) on an airgun.

Glad to see that so far this thread involving a low cost gun and a user that legitimately enjoys it hasn't been puked on by someone with too much money and too little common sense, that apparently has had a few too many. Then again it's still only on the first page...

OP, please don't get the wrong impression - the vast majority of members here are great and helpful. But as the saying goes, an old fool is born every minute. Just hope you don't get turned off or start second-guessing the M4-177. It IS a great gun. One that cost me $59 on sale at Canadian Tire, a place where a HW or PCP can't be found.

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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:15 am
Posts: 3578
Location: Edmonton
(Perhaps my comment will roll over to page two, but if not, my apologies for contaminating your elitist-free first page).

To say that people who prefer to buy an air gun based on at least some semblance of quality and value are elitists is pretty much an insult to the majority of active people on this forum. Most of them will choose to ignore that insult, which is probably a good thing because everything you have learned about air guns in the last 9 or 10 months has been from those elitists (i.e., those who have "too much money and too little common sense").

And you seem to forget the positive and helpful posts from those elitists when they do suggest inexpensive guns, especially to newcomers. The $60 2240 that can be any gun you want it to be. The $50 Beeman P17 that shoots quarters at 10 metres. The $70 Daisy 953 (as it is frequently sale-priced) that shoots dimes at 10+ meters, and several more entry priced air guns in different categories and genres. All of these guns are frequently and highly recommended by these elitists who, conversely, choose to own a couple (or maybe even a few) $250-$1000-guns, rather than the "pile" (your word) you choose to own.

And look, the OP (and you) have some support (and advice) from a couple of reputable members of this forum; that's great. To each his own, but be that as it may, the labelling is uncalled for. The number of times you have been assisted on this forum by those elitists is innumerable (those who encourage you to spend a little more for a lot more quality, and those same people who then help you make your purchase work despite the fact you ignored their good advice).

I wouldn't be casting them aside just yet.

$0.00


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 Post subject: Re: M4-177 bolt
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:20 am 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Eastern Townships
Hey Joolz, don' let that kind of things take a bite on you, my friend! Take the positive, and let go the negative, just don't let that steal away your happiness! Life is too precious to let bad comments ruin it :D .

Edmonton<500, thanks for sharing your opinion. I believe the most important things is respect for others, that's how you get respected yourself. And it's true you can get precious infos from peoples you don' have affinities with, you don't have to be friends, but there's no need to be light a fire!

Hey Chevota! You gave me an idea about that sealing issue: I have some high pressure rubber hose from an old air compressor. The ID is smaller than the size of a pellet, and the OD is about 3/8''. I believe i can make a seal with that, it would be inserted between the plastic transfer port and the casing of the gun. The ID would be smaller than the bolt (0.003''-0.005''),and I would make a bronze rod to replace the plastic rod of the bolt. I'll work on that and I'll post pictures when I'm done. Thanks A LOT for your ideas :D .


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