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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:51 pm
Posts: 39
Hi all.

I m looking to buy a new nitro piston for my bankal 61. The problemeis that I don t find where they sell the nitro piston.

can I puta nitro piston that is made for another air gun? If ti need to cut the rod , there is no proble.

Also I would like to get more fps out of it . Any simple mod that it is worth it?

Daoust


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:57 pm
Posts: 1754
Location: mb
Quote:
. . . . I would like to get more fps. . . .


What's it shooting now?

How much more?

Anything's possible. . . .

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
In experimenting with my son's IZH 61 one thing I tested was a heavier spring, one which had been used for a few months in the Industry Brand QB57. The cylinder of the 61 is considerably shorter so I had to cut the spring down until it would allow the sear to catch, so about 1/2 coil shorter than coil bind. Velocity with 7.5gr wadcutters went up to 550fps. But it was very harsh cycling, accuracy went out the window due to vibration, and I noted that the extra effort was both too difficult for my young boy to pull and that the hole in the piston for the cocking catch was beginning to deform after just a few dozen shots. So I removed that and went back to the stock 61 spring. I did a lot of other mods to make the gun shoot better, posted already so I won't re-post here. Link:
topic67966.html

I'd recommend not modifying this rifle for more power. It's not really built for it, at least with a piston system. Converting to PCP would probably allow considerably higher power without harshness or degradation of accuracy, but so far I've not found any clear set of instructions on how such a modification would be done and don't really have the time or interest in re-inventing the wheel at the moment. Apparently a Russian has done it though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7lllGy2wVE
At least I think he's Russian. Might want to turn your speakers off before clicking that, unless you like loud obnoxious music. Ultimately I think a 60 or 61 converted to PCP would be a whole lot of fun, and much easier to shoot accurately, but I just don't have a clue where one would start with such a conversion.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:28 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:51 pm
Posts: 39
For the fps it shoot, i don t know at this time. Will have to buy another chrono(i got paintball chrono that goes over the barrel).

of course if I can put a nitro piston that can give me more without the limite of this gun, it would be good for me.

at this time it can t punture a free standing small kraft peanut butter pot filled with water at around 12m .

The open sigth accuracy is good for me at this time .


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:54 pm
Posts: 518
The cocking arm on the mp61 is too weak for any hard heavy coacking force. You will need to have this part made to get a stronger coacking mechnism.

maybe a gas ram from webley. check chambers airgun spares.
to get a a good fps upgrade you would need as well to put orings on the probe that will help.

some did thos mods at a very high expense.

alex

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:47 am 
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Location: Montreal
I have one in my IZH-60. We needed to order a bunch directly from Russia or the cost would have been very prohibitive (it was still quite expensive if I remember right). I think it did shoot a bit faster, haven't shot it in a looong time.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
Crosman sells nitro springs, and the only one I suppose I'd try is their weakest one which has a body length of ~150mm. So if you have room in there for that then I suppose it's possible. The shaft is ~110mm, so 260 overall. The force is ~120lbs on that one, and the next one up is the same length but closer to 175lbs which I'm guessing is way too much for that gun. They have a shorter one with a 135mm body, but the pressure is much higher, somewhere >220, maybe even 250. The body diameter on them is 18 to 18.25mm btw. I'd just put a new coil spring in it and either do some mods to quiet it and/or use spring tar and call it good.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:51 pm
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Good for the info on the nitro piston of crosman. Do you know if it is a almost fit in? What kind of mod did i need to fit it there? Anywhere I can find the spec of the baikal spring size? I hope it will kill the vibration and give more power.

Thank you


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:36 pm 
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Location: Montreal
daoust wrote:
Good for the info on the nitro piston of crosman. Do you know if it is a almost fit in? What kind of mod did i need to fit it there? Anywhere I can find the spec of the baikal spring size? I hope it will kill the vibration and give more power.

Thank you

It will do both but it won't be as smooth. The firing cycle will harsher, the rifle will kick more. If you're close to Montreal send me a PM and maybe I can let you try mine?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:35 pm 
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Thank you for the invitation, but I m at 600km from your home , (rouyn-noranda) abitibi-temiscamingue. So if I understand well the 2 nitro piston from crosman you tell me should fit in but it will give a good recoil also. Did you try to ligthen the piston. I belive a heavy piston is good for a springer to kill vibration but with nitro , maybe a ligth weigth piston will be a better option. I found 2 crosman nitro pistons from dl airgun in Canada, witch one did you use? Also the daisy avanti 953 use some clip almost identical as the one from baikal, does ny of you try this? They are cheaper .

Thank you everyone


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:54 pm 
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Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
For what it's worth, my son's MP-61 was put together by Baikal with the solid steel spring guide INSIDE the piston, at the wrong end of the spring. I had test fired the rifle a few dozen times before taking it apart to do basic initial cleaning and lubrication, and those initial shots were VERY harsh. By simply putting the factory steel spring guide in at the back of the spring, reducing the weight of the piston by about half, I found the shots to be much less harsh. I went further, making a delrin spring guide somewhat longer than the factory one and fitting perfectly which further reduced vibration. There's no vibration now really. More of a single short *BAP!* sort of a sound and feel to the shot cycle. No twanging at all. So my conclusion based on Baikal's simple assembly error is that a lighter piston is a better thing in terms of shot smoothness.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:06 am 
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Location: 1/2 Way From Ottawa and Montreal,
I Had one not worth it, save your cash.
Same FPS but makes alot more noise you think it's faster but it's not.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:51 pm
Posts: 39
Ok thank you , so my best option will be to fine tune where i can see leak pressure and keep it that way. Thank for the great info . I will keep my money for a second rifle. I m looking for a mag fed air rifle that can shoot around 1000fps that is not pcp . Any idea? I like how the baikal 61 work but it is laking in the power delivery.and I don t like the factthat you need another power source for the pcp.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:03 pm 
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why do you want 1000fps what's your intentions... :?:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
Well if you had hopes of boosting a 61 up to 1,000fps, that's just not going to happen. With a very stiff spring or NP you might be able to push one over 700fps, maybe, but the cocking mechanism would break very quickly and the firing cycle would be so harsh as to make hitting your target virtually impossible. It's a beginner's target rifle and it shoots best at around 450fps with a 7gr wadcutter. I've found a barrel weight to be very useful in tuning vibration, gradually experimenting with different positions close to the muzzle until finding the smallest group size at 10 metres. It's still not a fine target rifle, but for a novice like my 9 year old it's a good starter rifle which won't make him too frustrated for the first year or two, until he starts wanting real accuracy.

I haven't run across any side-lever or under-lever rifles with magazines. There may be something, but for the most part those tend to be single shot. Going to a PCP opens up a world of multi-shot options, with the Brocock Concept Super 6 being an example of one lightweight multi-shot rifle. Still looking at $800 though, plus a pump or a tank. If your main interest is in power, then there are any number of single shot break-barrel rifles on the market for bargain prices. Canadian Tire has lots I think, though I haven't looked closely. You'll need your PAL of course. But perhaps, as maybe Ace is suggesting, you lack that, and that's why you've been asking about modding a sub-500fps rifle for much higher power? If that's the case then such discussion violates forum rules.


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