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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
Thanks for the pix, especially with the tape and lined paper! That is interesting and I always wondered if they used a lighter nitro but so far the only pix I've seen in 500fps models appeared to be the full power BT9M22. Yours looks identical the BT5M22, which a 5 or 7 in the part # seems to be code for lower power versions of whatever part, and usually added to the guns part #. The BT5 is the one they use in a rare 695fps version for certain areas in the US that have a 700fps limit, so with the only change being a BT5 nitro it's supposed to be 695 in .22. Really it's less but not hitting 700 is the point. They also made a 695 177 version but it uses a full power nitro and a funky piston, which I rekon might be the super long one or maybe your length with a hole in it. So strange all the different ways they choose de-tune. I like to keep track of all the parts out of curiosity and to better help people. So now I wonder if your nitro is really the same as the BT5 or if it's actually different. If it is then it should be just a different pressure. The BT5 is ~120lbs to begin compressing and the full power BT9 is ~170. The shaft of my BT5 is 8mm, which it looks like yours is too. The BT9 is 10mm which is where the extra force comes from.
So I'm guessing the steel butt cup didn't fit and you had to drill a new hole? And how did you machine the plastic cap? Looks too professional to have winged it by hand like I'd do....
Are you going to shorten the piston too or are you legally stuck at 500?
And one last Q; how is the bore on that thing? I was curious if it was a higher quality tube of steel stuffed in there or the same old Crosman barrel coated in plastic? I've seen other brands of plastic barrels that were a rather thin tube but with better rifling so I was curious. Like have you ever inspected the rifling with an eye loupe or pushed a pellet thru by hand compared to a generic Crosman?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Eastern Townships
Are you still there, FrankBlack01? :lol: . This is technical passion you see here! :D

@ Chevota: I must admit my error, the ram's rod is 8 mm, not 7 :oops: Measured with my caliper, it's 0.315''. And thanks for the good comments!

Nah, the steel base for the ram didn't fit right away. The TR77 receiver tube has the same pin position as my springers, I compared with the old Trail NP tube, it's not the same. Yes I had to re-drill a threaded hole, was quite easy though, 180 degrees from the existing hole. I put the base in place in the receiver, installed the retaining pin and used a self centering punch to mark the hole position. The steel is not hardened, it was easy to drill and tap. For the plastic cap, I used my Dremel tool with a small carbide cutter, and finished the job with #220 sand paper :wink: . The piston and ram are going to stay as they are, I don't have a firearm license, which, as you sure know, is necessary to have air guns over 500 fps in Canada.

The barrel's bore is one of the nicest among all my rifles. Absolutely no bad machining marks inside, it's very smooth and consistent. Pushing a pellet through the bore is like actuating a linear bearing, no tight or loose spots. I re-crowned it, though, there was a little bur to get rid of, and I gently radiused the barrel's entry, was too ''square'' to my taste. I'm sorry, I haven't been able to take a good pic of the rifling itself. Also the barrel looks about the same size as my others, judging by what I can see at the breach anyway. It's a 15'' inch barrel, unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to shoot it a lot, but it's promising. I had no troubles grouping in a nickel at 10 yards, and it's not even broken in :) . Just can't wait to try it at 20+ yards, especially with that 3-9x40 scope!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:06 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:15 am
Posts: 29
airmec wrote:
Are you still there, FrankBlack01? :lol: . This is technical passion you see here! :D



Lol oh ya taking it all in :)

FB.

_________________
My lips are hard but they speak the truth

TR77 NPS
SA 941
S&W M+P
Colt SAA Blued Airgunsource Rocks! 2 days deliv. in NEW condition
ReplicaAirGuns.ca = Bad... rust and missing finish +30 days to be reimbursed...
had to pay to ship it back....


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
The cross pin hole is ~.100" or 2.5mm further forward on nitro versions compared to the coil guns as you discovered. I assumed this was because they didn't want people buying parts to convert coil guns to nitro, obviously they want you to buy a whole new nitro gun. Another reason might have been concern about the receivers strength. Now yours and the full powered version both use the old coil spring receiver. Since there's so much plastic on this gun I can only guess it was built as cheaply as possible, receiver choice included. So maybe any conversion or strength worries are out the window to save $?
Now if the barrel is better then great, as long as they make a full length one too. Looking at your pix and the oem parts diagram it looks more like a std barrel with a plastic sleeve, maybe a little thinner like the shrouded Trail barrel. So I wonder if cost was the reason there too? Maybe less steel saved them 30 cents and the plastic cover was 20 cents so the bean counters went with it? Just guessing. It doesn't explain the better bore you mentioned, but maybe if we're lucky they upgraded the mfg process so all barrels will be better now. I always pictured the rifling taking place in some back alley or dirt yard with hammers and worn out tools. So far all the Crosman barrels (break barrel) I've checked had issues, even the ones they try to imply are made in the US. I wish I worked at Crosman so I could see wth, but then they wouldn't want me there because I'd be thorn in their side.
Btw, my BT5M nitro didn't have any numbers printed on it, just what looks like "+5.4" written by hand with a paint pen or something. So who knows, might be the same exact part.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Eastern Townships
Maybe the shop that made my rifle had new tooling, or maybe they don't work in a dark alley :lol: , maybe also I'm just lucky. Remember my Beeman, Chevota? I'd like to add it would be too funny seeing you at Crosman's shop, they would kick you out for harassment and criticism in no time :lol: :lol: :lol: .
Also I saw at least 4 versions of the TR77: a full power and a de-tuned ''plastic'' short barrel with a nitro ram, and a springer and a nitro ram rifle with the ''steel'' barrel .
FrankBlack01, how is the rifling in your gun? And the barrel's crown? Have you had the opportunity to shoot it to your taste with your new scope? How's the accuracy? And what pellets did you tried? I'd like to know how my rifle's ''sister'' is doing :D .


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:14 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:15 am
Posts: 3580
Location: Edmonton
Chevota wrote:
Maybe not, but how many opportunities does a one get to use that word? I couldn't pass it up... If others don't know it they can look it up. It's good to learn a new words, especially ones you can't believe they exist. Like many odd English words it was robbed from Latin as I'm sure you're aware, and the "de" meaning out or away (but it seems English uses it for "remove", e.g., delaminate, decaffeinate). Fenestrate is Latin for window or opening, which we English hardly ever use but it happens. So it appears we stole their word for "out the window", and modified it to "a person thrown out or through a window". I would've interpreted is as "to throw something out a window", specifying "person" and including "through" adds credence to my belief this word was absorbed and modified just for fun. At least I get entertainment out of it. Then there's the other English meaning; "removing someone in power", which is prosaic compared to the window version. I threw that word in just for your entertainment :)


Trust me; not often when intentions are to have readers comprehend. :lol: But enough of this. Back to the Intended programming on this thread. I'll save my rhetoric commentaries for more needy posts, which will be ignored with equal disdain to that which they would receive here. :P


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:49 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:15 am
Posts: 29
airmec wrote:
FrankBlack01, how is the rifling in your gun? And the barrel's crown? Have you had the opportunity to shoot it to your taste with your new scope? How's the accuracy? And what pellets did you tried? I'd like to know how my rifle's ''sister'' is doing :D .


Salut Airmec :)

Rifiling is ok now ;)
Was heavy metal residue from manufacturing in one spot at about one inch inside which I cleaned out with a lot of effort.
Also the barrel was soooo dirty, noticed accuracy dropping, cleaning made it all good again.

Loooove the scope Omg it's great, and keeps zero but seriously heavy......

Accuracy, at 10 meters getting 1/4 inch groupings or less constant in rested? position (Not sure what the actual term is, rifle is resting on my hand on a table) using standard crossman pointed pellets, a lot of the groups are 3/16th of an inch ctc (750 pellets thus far).
Crossman premier hollow points = a lot of flyers, not consistent (tried 500) . So ironically standard pointed pellets much better for mine.

Just received a box of competition wadcutters from Crossman will try those today. :)

_________________
My lips are hard but they speak the truth

TR77 NPS
SA 941
S&W M+P
Colt SAA Blued Airgunsource Rocks! 2 days deliv. in NEW condition
ReplicaAirGuns.ca = Bad... rust and missing finish +30 days to be reimbursed...
had to pay to ship it back....


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:15 am
Posts: 29
Sooooooo,
Tried out the competition Crosman flat wadcutter pellets.
First I thought these would cut right through paper making a tiny hole no?
They're making vertical lines in my paper (Tearing paper) lol
3 groups of 5 shots = 1/8 of an inch ctc dead center of target
Had to check my barrel a few times, thought pellet got stuck in it since they were going through same hole on target :)

Discovered this rifle likes to be held tight (Left hand on stock) :)
So I tried the pointed Crosman pellets again this time with a tight hold,
10 shots dead center of target 3/8 of an inch ,
On 10 shots not bad.

Conclusion, mine likes the Crosman wadcutters and pointed tips,
Except my paper doesn't like the wadcutters ;)

FB.

_________________
My lips are hard but they speak the truth

TR77 NPS
SA 941
S&W M+P
Colt SAA Blued Airgunsource Rocks! 2 days deliv. in NEW condition
ReplicaAirGuns.ca = Bad... rust and missing finish +30 days to be reimbursed...
had to pay to ship it back....


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Eastern Townships
Aaaaaaaah! :D . Merci FrankBlack01! I already knew this was a good rifle, but I haven't had the opportunity to shoot it much, just some basement ''test shots''.
I'm rather surprised you have good results with pointed pellets, not a lot of rifles like them! I'll need to test that. Actually, I have 9 different models of pellets in .177, but I only tried 2, CPHP and JSB Exact Domed 8.44. I must try those pointed next! Also it's pretty interesting that ''where's the pellet?'' story, must have been pretty satisfying! :lol: You'll soon forget about the scope's weight, I'm sure! Anyway, very good results!
Seems like those rifles are well built, maybe Crosman changed their QC procedures. Very happy for you, FrankBlack :D .
And just to let you know, I built a safe spring compressor for under 40$. You don't need to spend big bucks to be safe, just build it the right way :wink: .


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