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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:15 am
Posts: 29
Hey guys,
I read a few times about competition shooter never cleaning their guns....
Why is mine clearly losing about a half inch accuracy at 10 yards after about 500 shots
and it's because barrel is dirty, (black dirty) tested 3 times now and confirmed.

Is it because the Crosman barrel is cheaper, bad rifling?
Is it normal that I have to clean it out so often or?

Thanks for the info

FB.

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My lips are hard but they speak the truth

TR77 NPS
SA 941
S&W M+P
Colt SAA Blued Airgunsource Rocks! 2 days deliv. in NEW condition
ReplicaAirGuns.ca = Bad... rust and missing finish +30 days to be reimbursed...
had to pay to ship it back....


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1186
Location: Eastern Townships
I'm not 100% sure, but maybe it's the residues of oily smoke resulting from the dieseling of your brand new rifle. It's possible it was over-oiled from the factory, resulting in an over-abundance of ''ashes''. Ever saw the inside of a diesel engine exhaust pipe? I saw it may take up to a thousand shots to ''clean'' the chamber of a break barrel gun. My best advice would be to clean the barrel again. Is there a cloud of smoke in the bore after a shot? If so, you could blow it out when you cock you gun, before the next shot. It may, or may not, help to reduce accumulation of soot.

Good luck, and happy shooting :D .


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
Could be a lot of things, including the next tin of pellets. The cheaper the pellets the more likely the next tin will not be like the last and guns can be finicky, especially cheaper guns. If the breech seal has been pressed/pounded too flat it'll leak, the more it leaks the worse things get which include accuracy. The oem barrel side washers are plastic and the contact surfaces are very rough so the already loose barrel just gets looser over time. Scope parallax can hurt you too, so if shooting at 10 yards with an oem 4x32 scope which is likely set to 100' then you will have problems.
Yes the barrel and rifling is low quality, it's made in China on the cheap. Well, that was the standard for most Crosman guns but the new short barreled TR "may" be better. I don't have enough info to say but one member here told me his bore was very nice, and reviews of the short barreled model are more positive, not littered with the usual accuracy complaints. I seriously doubt the barrel is made anywhere other than China so maybe they finally stepped up quality? I doubt it but I can hope, specifically hope that will extend to all their guns.
The bores are typically extremely dirty when new, and due to the quality they shave lead off the pellets so they tend to remain dirty. The dirt generally isn't much of an issue, at least not compared to the other problems so I wouldn't worry about it yet.
So you can and should do a lot of fixes to the gun before worrying about dirt. Lots of info online but I also have a tuning guide with all that stuff of you want it; chevota at hotmail and remind me of who you are.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:15 am
Posts: 29
Thanks guys,
All makes sense....
Not the oem scope, it's a leapers 3-9 x 40 hunter scope which is great.
I can definitely see a huge difference in my groupings after cleaning.

Glad I'm learning all this on an inexpensive rifle :)
I also dropped it after my last session just keeled over on the floor and the plastic on the barrel got dented (the barrel is covered in plastic) aka not very sturdy, again it's ok taking notes as I go :).

Cheap pellets (I do 100 per session minimum), shavings from manufacture, over oiling,
I'm learning a lot. :)

Next step, get my pal....
Simply more choices for pcp... like the AA s510 (power adjustable from 500 to 900+)
But so damn expensive....

_________________
My lips are hard but they speak the truth

TR77 NPS
SA 941
S&W M+P
Colt SAA Blued Airgunsource Rocks! 2 days deliv. in NEW condition
ReplicaAirGuns.ca = Bad... rust and missing finish +30 days to be reimbursed...
had to pay to ship it back....


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:50 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
Crosman are great guns to learn with, cheap and challenging. You'll also appreciate nicer guns more when you get them.
So we'll assume the scope is good to go, but it many have other issues. Like did you have to adjust the top elevation screw out to get it on target? Also, does the barrel have any side to side or up down play? Is the barrel rough or have tight spots? Is the crown good or is there any damage to the rifling a few mm below the crown? Is the trigger travel so long that you basically have to guess when it'll fire? Are you using any kind of rest to shoot from? What kind or cheapie pellets are you using? Info on all the above and much more is in that guide I mentioned, plus it's great for noobs to learn about the gun.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:51 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:15 am
Posts: 29
Chevota wrote:
Crosman are great guns to learn with, cheap and challenging. You'll also appreciate nicer guns more when you get them.
So we'll assume the scope is good to go, but it many have other issues. Like did you have to adjust the top elevation screw out to get it on target? Also, does the barrel have any side to side or up down play? Is the barrel rough or have tight spots? Is the crown good or is there any damage to the rifling a few mm below the crown? Is the trigger travel so long that you basically have to guess when it'll fire? Are you using any kind of rest to shoot from? What kind or cheapie pellets are you using? Info on all the above and much more is in that guide I mentioned, plus it's great for noobs to learn about the gun.


Hey Chevota,
Scope was zeroed using a benchrest base, hasn't moved.
No play on the barrel, (I will check screws on the rifle though might have loosened).
Using a rest yes, always the same position.
Cheapie pellets are Crosman competition wadcutters.

FB

_________________
My lips are hard but they speak the truth

TR77 NPS
SA 941
S&W M+P
Colt SAA Blued Airgunsource Rocks! 2 days deliv. in NEW condition
ReplicaAirGuns.ca = Bad... rust and missing finish +30 days to be reimbursed...
had to pay to ship it back....


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
The firmer the bench rest is the more it will affect the gun. I never let the gun touch anything by my hands and shoulder. So if your bench is harder than your hand I'd put my hand between it and the gun or maybe something like a folded up towel. The reason is unlike a firearm these springers move back and forth before the pellet exits, so anything the gun comes in contact with can change that movement and thus change the poi. Harder surfaces amplify this effect which you can try by putting the butt or forend on wood or whatever. Also, if you plan on shooting it freehand you need be extra careful because that will different than the bench so it may change the poi. How sensitive these guns are to how they're held varies drastically so it may not be a big deal or it might completely screw it up.
I've never see an unmodified Crosman that did not have barrel play, and usually it's quite a bit.
The scope can be secure externally, but can move internally which is why I asked about the elevation adj.
None of this may make sense but the how and why is a lot to get into.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:28 am
Posts: 6
Location: Calgary
Hello im new to this forum but I do have a few things to say that might help I had the same issue with 3 crosman guns and my old xs60c they seem to be rough deep in the iner groves of the rifling causing excess lead to be striped from the pellet and deposited on the inner groves leaving more and more with every shot eventually choking it to the point were you might as well have a smooth bore lol. I went and bought the winchester cleaning kit from walmart its a pull through kit that comes for the 17hmr and the .22lr separate tho not in the same kit.
It has 3 tools to pull through the bore a copper wire brush a soft synthetic fouling brush and a patch puller.
First off I take 4 drops of synthetic pelligun oil and drop it in the breach end be carefull tho not to get it on the breach seal.
2nd run the soft fouling brush through the bore breach to muzzle 2x
3rd run the copper brush down 5x to help smooth the inner groves of the riffling.
4th run patches down untill there is no deposits.

This process can be repeated multipul times untill it looks like a mirror inside your bore but make sure there is no pelligun oil left as it will combust causing your rifle to diesel and foul the barrel all over again. I dont condone this as normal cleaning practice it is my method of deburing and smoothing rifling to an accepable level. For standard cleaning run 1 oil patch with non petrolium oil and keep pulling through untill they come out spotless.

I hope my experience with the same thing helps it also improved my guns accuraccy and the way the rifling engaged the pellet much less deformation of the skirt and the rim of the head I found in my silent trap witch also means less drag and friction on the pellet as it flys though the air which means a better ballistic co efficient on the pellet.
So all in all a better gun lol
Cheers


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