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 Post subject: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:19 am
Posts: 9
Location: Keswick, Ontario
Hello Everyone
I have a couple of questions I hope you folks can help me out with. First a little background. I bought a BSA Meteor way back in the mid 70's as a teenager (I believe it is a mk 4). I shot it a lot, mostly targets and cans. I have always liked the gun. I got older, joined the army, honorably discharged after 5 years, got married had kids, kids grew up etc, etc. Anyway long story short life happens. The gun was put away in a gun safe and only saw the light of day for it's yearly cleaning. I have several other rifles that get cleaned at the same time but this is my only air rifle.
The other day I brought it out and wondered if it still works. I oiled it up, cocked it, loaded a pellet, closed the breach, sighted on a paper target, squeezed the trigger and .............plop, the pellet barely made it out of the barrel. I figure it probably just needs a good internal cleaning and some seals. I checked on the internet to source some seals and how to take it apart for cleaning and wow! I had no idea there where so many kits and mods you could do to many airguns. I have literally spent days reading about the world of airguns and that has lead me to this site and that is where my questions start.
What the heck is a chrony and why do I need one? Or do I?
My air rifle is rated at 500 fps (not even close right now) but I have been reading about the ft lb rating. What does that mean? How is it measured. I have read that I should not exceed the 12 ft lb rating. Is that correct? How would I know?
I really don't want to modify the gun right now but if I clean and polish the air chamber, new spring, new seals, moly grease, is there a danger of exceeding the 500 fps rating or the 12 ft lb rating?
My other rifles are registered but the BSA isn't. At the time they were not interesting in my pellet gun when I tried to register it. I never acquired my PAL I was grandfathered in with my hunting license and my firearms owner card (I don't even know what it is called right now but the paperwork is in my gun safe.)
Anyways, thanks for your time. I am looking forward to your answers and comments.


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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:51 am
Posts: 26
Location: Northumberland uk
A chrony when attached to the rifle with give you the speed your travels at as it leaves the barrel (fps) by knowing this value ,and using the weight of the pellet your using its power output (fpe) can be calculated using the formulae
Fps x fps x pellet wt ÷450240 = fpe
Different countries have laws pertaining to max output allows before a licence / PAL is required in the uk yhis is 12ft/lb in Canada I believe its fps must not excede 500fps but not sure I hope that this helps
http://www.airgunbuyer.com/page.asp?pg=1008
Here's details of different countries rules

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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:07 am
Posts: 3320
Location: Central West River Nova Scotia
The reply above is a little unclear, so I will attempt to clarify. A "chrony" or chronograph measures bullet speed, or in your case, pellet speed. If you want to do some modernizing ,"modding" of your pellet gun and want to keep it legal for Canada, that is 500 feet per second or less, then a "chrony" is a must. You can find cheap ones with no bells and whistles, on line for around $100 when on sale. There are chronographs that attach to your barrel, but the most common kind are mounted to a camera tripod, or simply rested on a flat surface.. FPE, or foot pound energy is not a factor in canada. You could fire a five pound pellet under 500 feet per second, and still be legal, about 35000 foot poundsl. You can find an easy to use calculator online. Just type in Fpe calculator and then click on the airgun site. As for the problem you are having with your gun, unless the spring is broken, you dont need to replace it. A good cleaning is all you need. However if the plunger is leather, you may need to soak it in oil to soften it up.. do not use motor oil as it will combust when firing. A non petroleum or non combustable oil is best.. If the piston cup or plunger is synthetic, check it for cracks or damage. I hope this helps.
PS. Be very careful taking the gun apart. The mainspring is under compression. Use a bar clamp, or go online and find plans to construct an air gun spring removing clamp.

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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 1638
Location: 1/2 Way From Ottawa and Montreal,
Since you have a pal you can run your air rifle at any speed you like but keep it under the sound barrier, or you lose accuracy.

A chrony is very useful to tune your airgun, you don't need one but it's very useful and it tells you if your tuning is on or off.

if you need to buy a chorny Scopes and Ammo has the best price right now.

and for a spring kit http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/ is your best bet.

FPS id Feet per second.
FPE is foot pound energie

pellet weight X speed = FPE so a 8.44g pellet at 780fps = 12fpe or there about <--- rule for Field Target.
Hunter Field target is 20fpe

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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:19 am
Posts: 9
Location: Keswick, Ontario
Hi Guys
Thanks for the replies. There is some great information there.
I found some great Youtube videos on how to safely take the rifle apart. I made a mainspring compressor and got the Meteor apart in less than 30 minutes, not including the time it took to make the spring compressor. So far I have found the breach seal is falling apart, the piston o ring is flat and scored, the damper (I assume that is what it is) at the rear of the piston is in pieces some of the pieces are jammed up around the o ring. the mainspring isn't broken but has a bend in it about 1/3 of the way down. Not a bad bend but enough of one that it is noticeable. I would assume it would affect the release of the spring when firing. And it is as dry as a popcorn fart in the where the piston slides (sleeve, compression chamber??)
If I read you correctly if I don't modify the rifle, just a good cleaning replace the seals and a new stock spring it should still fire at 500 fps or less. The only way to verify that is using a chronagraph. I may get one. I am starting to become intrigued by what I have been reading.
I have also read that lubing the piston, tube and spring should be done with molly grease. Would you guys agree?
I get what you are saying about not using a petroleum based oil as lube. The compression chamber would become a diesel engine. That's a great point.
One more question, for now.......lol, any recommendation for a scope? My eyes are not what they used to be.


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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:07 am
Posts: 3320
Location: Central West River Nova Scotia
Although the spring is bent, it should still be fine, but if you intend to buy a kit anyway, you may as well replace it. As for getting 500 fps ? The meteor was never a power house gun. You might only get 400 fps. Some pictures of the mess inside would be helpful in determining if the gun is even worth rebuilding. Is the main piston seal leather, or an o ring. I'm assuming its leather. Most meteors before 1970 were leather. Replacing a leather seal is difficult because they are not readily available. If howeve, if its the o ring type, you need a "viton" o ring. They're more heat resistant. The kits available might also be for the newer version of the meteor. You need to check the model update. IE I, II,III, IV, V, VI, OR VII. each had upgrades through the years and sometime during those years, the piston seal changed.

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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:51 am
Posts: 26
Location: Northumberland uk
Or you could try making a seal yourself :D if its a leather version
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... hH6gK7w9Ng

Check here for different versions and parts
https://www.gunspares.co.uk/categories/24305/Meteor/

_________________
Qb78dl, xs78, xs79hpa
Berreta cx4 storm
Hw80k, Hw77
Logun solo
S200
Bam51, B2, B45-3
Xs19, xs20,xs36-1,xs36-2,xs38
Webley mk3, osprey
Lion
Crosman 1740,2250
Paratrooper .22
P17,Orginal10,webley senior,junior Cp1,powerline 717


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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:42 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Ontario
I rebuilt my brother's 30+ year old Meteor a couple years ago. It had a lot of gunk in it which I cleaned out with break cleaner, then honed it with a slotted dowel and sandpaper, cleaned thoroughly again and if I remember correctly, ordered new breech and piston seals from the UK. I think they cost about $30 - $40 shipped. It gained some speed back and was shooting nice after that, I think around 650fps. I used moly paste on it (use sparingly) but now I use Ultimox...pricey but I like it.
Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:19 am
Posts: 9
Location: Keswick, Ontario
Hi Guys
Here are some pictures of my BSA disassembled. In the third one you can see it is an "O" ring seal. Also you can see the slightly bent spring and the damaged dampener washer.
In the second one you can see the rear piston section. I have a concern there is no tack weld on the closed (left) side. It looks like it is opening up. Should I tack weld it? I received the seal/spring kit yesterday as you can see the new spring is quite a bit longer in the first pic. I did some research and the original spring is 240 mm long. The spring that came out of the rifle is 230 mm long and the new one is 300 mm long. Should I cut the new one or install as is?


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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:35 pm
Posts: 3099
Location: Alberta Canada
As to your pictures. You have the older oring button which is a good thing. A 90 durometer Viton oring would be the choice of replacement. Where your piston has started to seperate, if it was me yes a small tack weld to secure recommended. File, sand or machine to round again. The 300mm spring is the British 12fpe model. If you have your PAL replace with the 300mm. If not replace with your old one. Some moly upon the spring, guide to reduce metal to metal friction and smooth the shot cycle. Enjoy the rebuild and relive your days of shooting that rifle of yours.

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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
The new spring wire appears to be either the same thickness as the original or slightly smaller gauge. The coil count looks like 4 or 5 turns fewer with the new spring. That should be able to compress into the same airgun without coil bind, though I expect it'll be a bit harder to control alignment while compressing it into place, so I hope you have a stable and safe bar clamp arrangement or something to keep it from flying around when you try cramming it into the cylinder.

Couldn't tell you on the welding question. I'd probably clean up that whole slot and bronze weld it, or have someone TIG weld it for me, as it looks pretty sketchy with an open slot like that. But perhaps it's just fine. I'm not familiar with this type of piston so you'll need more expert opinions there.


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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:19 am
Posts: 9
Location: Keswick, Ontario
The new spring wire thickness is .1185 in and there are 33 coils, the old spring is .120 in and the coil count is 34.
I agree about the open gap and just finished brazing the gap together. I will let it cool and machine it back to original OD when it is cooled.
I have built a "spring compressor" from ideas I have seen on the web so I could safely disassemble and reassemble the spring back into the chamber. I will post pictures of all the above later.
Thanks everyone for your help and advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
Ah, I mis-counted, woops. So from your numbers it looks like there is no worry about coil bind, actually a bit of extra space with the new spring. Good, hope it comes together nicely for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:19 am
Posts: 9
Location: Keswick, Ontario
So here is my homemade spring compressor.


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 Post subject: Re: Newby Questions
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:19 am
Posts: 9
Location: Keswick, Ontario
The repaired piston


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