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 Post subject: Benjamin EBXX Problems
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:46 am
Posts: 8
I just got an EB, new to me, an it looks brand new, it has the plastic grips. I dropped in a Cros co2 and after tightening it and making sure it was well rammed in I fired it without a pellet no pop. I have repeated this several times and nothing
I now have a gun that doesn't fire and a co2 cartridge that neither comes out with gas nor comes out at all.

Any ideas?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:13 am 
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Location: Vancouver
Firstly, why post this exact same thing in the same forum section twice, almost an hour apart?

As for the problem, it sounds likely that you neglected to put a small drop of oil on the tip of the CO2 cartridge first and that the piercing pin has stuck into the tip of the cartridge, sealing it. Quite likely you over-tightened the CO2 securing cap, contributing to the jam. They only need to be very modestly tightened if the seals are in decent condition.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:01 pm 
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Is the diagnosis you provide compatible with the gun not discharging?

What is the best way to proceed to fix it?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:44 pm 
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Sorry, but I'm having a difficult time understanding why you are not understanding what I wrote yesterday. If the piercing pin is stuck in the CO2 bulb, how would the CO2 get out to allow firing? It's sealed by the pin. If my guess is correct, that is. It could be some other problem, I have no idea. Perhaps you should unscrew the cap and try to remove the CO2 bulb and find out? A bit of wiggling will usually let them break free when stuck on a piercing pin.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:57 pm
Posts: 1754
Location: mb
Go Here = Benjamin and Sheridan Pistol Owners Manuals and Parts Diagrams

Download the Owners Manual, and Parts Diagram for your particular pistol.

There is a small possibility, that the Cartridge that you loaded was a dud(no CO2), and, I have heard of EB pistols being fussy about releasing spent carts that have an exterior adhesive label. . . . . But I'm not aware of recent vintage Crosman Carts having an adhesive label. . . .

The biggest concerning issue is, not knowing with 100% certainty, whether the cart is Spent(dud) or live, and/or pierced, but being held in by a deteriorating valve seal and stuck piercing pin. . . .

Sorta curious why you stated that you had to ensure it was "well rammed in". . . There is a possibility that there may be a small(almost imperceptible) crease or dent in the "barrel assembly"(cartridge tube) that may be causing the cartridge to fit too snugly.

If as suggested, the cart is both live and pierced, but stuck into the tube assembly, you've got a pretty serious and potentially dangerous problem. . . .

If the Cart is spent(or a dud) it's still a pickle, but not a dangerous one. . . .
Quote:
What is the best way to proceed to fix it?

What is your level of "Tinkering Experience" and/or Mechanical Aptitude? I know what I'd do, but I'm hesitant to advise someone, who may not have an appreciation for the potentials of what they're dealing with. . . . Might be best to locate the nearest BenSherCrosman Service location and send it out. . .

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:01 pm 
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Quote:
Perhaps you should unscrew the cap and try to remove the CO2 bulb and find out?

Not until you know, with 100 percent certainty, whether the cart is spent or live!!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:18 pm 
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Why? It gets a bit cold, but the pressure resident in a CO2 bulb is rather small. I punctured one with a sharp awl a couple of months ago, holding it in my hand and just poking into the thin metal seal. A few seconds of hissing later the show was over, my son had a silly grin on his face, and we moved on. Of course you'd not want to put your eye up against it while removing it... but why would anyone do that? EXPANDED but still contained CO2 is a different matter. ~850psi is nothing to fool around with. But that's not what is in a CO2 bulb, it's all potential, very little energy, and nothing that could hurt you except by contact freezing. So yeah, no eyes up close, don't stick your fingers in front of the CO2 jet, and it'll be fine. Folks in the food industry pop these things all the time for giggles. No big deal.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:54 pm 
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Quote:
. . . nothing that could hurt you . . .No big deal.

Glad your shenanigans were fun! It would appear however, that our experience, and opinion, differ. . . .

To the OP: I maintain, that if the cart is live, pierced, and stuck(on seal, pin, or tube), you're gonna want to apply a significant level of caution. Significant.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:50 am 
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Location: Edmonton
Caution: most definitely. Significant caution (as in X2 significant caution by vAgRaNt - as in "lives are endangered), No; let's get real here. A CO2 cartridge in a normal state is under pressure, and the pressure can be dangerous: Gas released quickly is cold enough to freeze fingers and powerful enough to make the capsule a projectile that can cause damage. Remember, though, even the most uninformed people in the food industry use CO2 carts in a few of their everyday activities. They are not considered intrinsically dangerous by anyone!

In the airgun world, we lean (sometimes overzealously) toward ultimate potential outcomes. In fact, if you release CO2 gas, escaping under high pressure, you can expose yourself to "instant frostbite" temperatures. Also, If you release all restraints on a pressurized capsule, that lack of restraint may convert said capsule into a missile of measurable, but unpredictable destruction. To anyone using CO2 capsules: Duh!

Folks, with any common sense applied, this is a 2016 version of, "Close cover before striking." "Control vessel movement and its depressurizing rate."


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:30 am 
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So I extracted the cartridge, it had a depression in the end of it no puncture. I lubed it up and put it back in, still nothing. I looked into the tube before replacing the cartridge and there appeared to be a pin in there and a seal, but it really isn't all that evident. I probably should have felt for it with a stick or something.

Any idea about next step. I assume that I can again remove the cartridge and possibly disassemble the piece and see if the pin is intact. Anything more useful to do first?

Certainly what I have done so far installation wise would have punctured a cartridge in my 2240. Something isn't right.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:39 am 
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Location: Vancouver
A depression in the end... sounds like the spacing isn't quite right, the distance between whatever's pushing the CO2 bulb and the pin/seal is slightly too great. If the pin is sharp, another 1mm to 2mm push inward should puncture it and seal. Perhaps try adding a few layers of masking tape to one CO2 bulb, on the round end, install that and see if it works. If it does, then shoot through it and figure out a way to add something more permanent to your push-device whatever that is in that airgun. Perhaps an epoxy putty or something, to reduce the space between it and the pin.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:48 am 
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So I took apart the rear of the gun, and it turns out that while everything in there looks good, the "firing pin/valve" was stuck. So I loosened that up, and the cylinder now punctures, but predictably all the co2 ran out as the seal(s) are shot.

Sorta an obvious problem. I have no idea how long this thing has been left unattended, and while it is in pretty much NOS condition, it is what it is after all that neglect. Came in a box of 9 pistols a friend gave me, of which this is the one I like best, but some of them are possibly more interesting.

Anyway, I will have to replace the seals. Anyone know of a video or instructable on that? The only part I didn't remove in the cartridge area was Exhaust Valve Assembly. It looks like there might be some set screw in there to remove. Or possibly one needs and odd shaped socket removal tool. Anyone actually done this. I can make the tool if I have to, it looks pretty simple. Since I have it all together again, I don't have access to the set screw, if that is what is down that hole. A preview would be useful and save me having too much open time.

Is it best just to order seals off the internet, or does anyone have the kits up here?

The adventure continues.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:46 am
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GerardSamija wrote:
A depression in the end... sounds like the spacing isn't quite right, the distance between whatever's pushing the CO2 bulb and the pin/seal is slightly too great. If the pin is sharp, another 1mm to 2mm push inward should puncture it and seal. Perhaps try adding a few layers of masking tape to one CO2 bulb, on the round end, install that and see if it works. If it does, then shoot through it and figure out a way to add something more permanent to your push-device whatever that is in that airgun. Perhaps an epoxy putty or something, to reduce the space between it and the pin.


"Sorta curious why you stated that you had to ensure it was "well rammed in". . ."

You answered your own question. As it happens pennies are the perfect size to space this thing out. There was an unconvincing hardware store washer between the two parts of the cap, which lead me to believe that the earlier owner had had some kind of problem with the spacing. Everything seems to fit fine, and this gun seems recent enough, but at one time Sheridan had it's own CO2 cartridge, though I doubt that is what is going on with this gun. Doesn't mean anything to me, but the serial number is 394xxxxxx as far as aging is concerned. Might be 1982 according to some chart. And it is actually an E9, so it turns out that the regular seal kits won't work.


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