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 Post subject: Deburr spring cylinder?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:24 pm 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec
How do you deburr a spring cylinder? I'm guessing that if there are any rough spots, it would be along the slot where the spring compression arm (on a breakbarrel) connects. Does removing the piston (and seal) possibly scratch or damage it? Or do you leave that in place and only remove the spring in order to get inside and smooth out the rough spots?

I wanna get my new HW30S shooting nice and smoothly.

Thanks for any help...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:22 am 
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Location: Illinois
Yes, you have to remove the piston to do a proper deburring. You will be pulling the piston out backwards so it shouldn't damage the seal. But if the cylinder has burrs, the seal is most likely damaged already, I'd replace it before re-assembling your rifle. What I use is a piece of 3/4" pvc pipe. I put a strip of double back tape about 10" long on the pipe then stick a 400 grit piece of sandpaper to it and roll it tight around the pipe. Be sure to get the sandpaper all the way to the end of the pipe so that it will reach the bottom of the cylinder. Then I rotate the pipe and pull it in and out slightly until the cylinder is smooth. Twist the pipe as you pull it out to put circular grooves on the cylinder wall. Then take a fine file or piece of emery cloth and smooth all edges of the slots in the cylinder. Then I wash it out with denatured alcohol until it's clean and any grit is gone. The alcohol will evaporate quickly. Then I take a 1/2" pvc pipe and wrap a paper towel around it and apply a little moly paste to it. Push this all the way to the bottom of the cylinder while turning it and then back it out while turning. Then I put a clean paper towel on the pipe and wipe out as much of the moly as I can. A small amount will stay in the tiny grooves left in the cylinder wall. Put the new seal on the piston and slowly twist it as you insert it back into the cylinder being extra careful when pushing it past the slots. I put a small amount of moly on the rear of the piston, but it's not really necessary. I also put a small amount of JM tar on the spring. This is my method and I'm sure you will get many more from others here that have done a lot more tuning than I have. Good luck.

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"You repair things with tools, you fix things with a hammer, if you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem !"


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:42 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Ontario
I've only done 4 or 5 guns, but I am very similar, except I use brake cleaner to blast out gunk before cleaning and after. I use a 1/2" dowel that I cut a slot in one end about an inch deep, fold 320 wet/dry sandpaper and insert in slot 2-3" wide and wrap it around dowel so it flaps and hones cylinder when I put it in my cordless drill. I file any burrs in any slots with a small file first and this honing will further smooth that out. I have switched from moly paste to ultimox as my lube...not cheap but it works great. A small amount goes a long way. I even put a very small amount on a piece of rag and put that in the dowel slot to burnish a bit in the cylinder. Then a little on the seal and valve and carefully install without damaging seal.Have a new seal on hand so you can do everything and reassemble all at once.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:20 pm 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec
Nod wrote:
Yes, you have to remove the piston to do a proper deburring. You will be pulling the piston out backwards so it shouldn't damage the seal. But if the cylinder has burrs, the seal is most likely damaged already, I'd replace it before re-assembling your rifle. What I use is a piece of 3/4" pvc pipe. I put a strip of double back tape about 10" long on the pipe then stick a 400 grit piece of sandpaper to it and roll it tight around the pipe. Be sure to get the sandpaper all the way to the end of the pipe so that it will reach the bottom of the cylinder. Then I rotate the pipe and pull it in and out slightly until the cylinder is smooth. Twist the pipe as you pull it out to put circular grooves on the cylinder wall. Then take a fine file or piece of emery cloth and smooth all edges of the slots in the cylinder. Then I wash it out with denatured alcohol until it's clean and any grit is gone. The alcohol will evaporate quickly. Then I take a 1/2" pvc pipe and wrap a paper towel around it and apply a little moly paste to it. Push this all the way to the bottom of the cylinder while turning it and then back it out while turning. Then I put a clean paper towel on the pipe and wipe out as much of the moly as I can. A small amount will stay in the tiny grooves left in the cylinder wall. Put the new seal on the piston and slowly twist it as you insert it back into the cylinder being extra careful when pushing it past the slots. I put a small amount of moly on the rear of the piston, but it's not really necessary. I also put a small amount of JM tar on the spring. This is my method and I'm sure you will get many more from others here that have done a lot more tuning than I have. Good luck.


Thank you so much for the helpful reply!!

I don't KNOW if this (new) gun has burrs in the cylinder. I just suspect that as with most new guns there is a strong possibility. And I don't have another piston seal. I've got a Vortek kit on order, so I should probably wait until it arrives before taking the gun apart and de-burring the cylinder and then just putting the Vortek kit in instead of the original. The kit is coming from the States so it might take awhile and I was hoping to get the gun in better shape sooner rather than later.

Just in case, was that a typo when you say to use a 3/4" piece of PVC pipe with the sandpaper and then a 1/2" one for the paper towel and moly? At this point I don't know what the inside diameter of the cylinder is but it strikes me that if the 3/4" piece is right for the sandpaper it should be right for the paper towel as well.

What is "JM tar"?

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:22 pm 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec
mooseslayerjc wrote:
I've only done 4 or 5 guns, but I am very similar, except I use brake cleaner to blast out gunk before cleaning and after. I use a 1/2" dowel that I cut a slot in one end about an inch deep, fold 320 wet/dry sandpaper and insert in slot 2-3" wide and wrap it around dowel so it flaps and hones cylinder when I put it in my cordless drill. I file any burrs in any slots with a small file first and this honing will further smooth that out. I have switched from moly paste to ultimox as my lube...not cheap but it works great. A small amount goes a long way. I even put a very small amount on a piece of rag and put that in the dowel slot to burnish a bit in the cylinder. Then a little on the seal and valve and carefully install without damaging seal.Have a new seal on hand so you can do everything and reassemble all at once.


Thanks very much!

_________________
AA S510 Xtra FAC Ultimate Sporter *CARBINE* .22
CZ200S "Green" .177
Feinwerkbau 800 Evolution Top
Air Arms S400 MPR FT .177
Steyr EVO 10
Benjamin Sheridan 397P
Stoeger X5 (non-PAL)
Crosman P1377 & P1322


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:39 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Illinois
The 3/4" is for the sandpaper because it is thinner and the cylinder will be somewhere near 1" ID. The 1/2" is because the paper towel is thicker. JM tar is a thick tar sold by Air Rifle Headquarters, another great company that sells kits for air guns . It's also based here in the US. I believe that Vortek sells some kind of tar too, but if not, I'm sure someone here will post an alternative product. Another thing I just thought of is to make sure the ends of your spring are flat, if they aren't just grind them flat. It makes a big difference in smoothing out the shot cycle.

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Diana 34 .22, Benjamin Marauder Gen II .25cal,

"You repair things with tools, you fix things with a hammer, if you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem !"


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:57 pm 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec
Nod wrote:
The 3/4" is for the sandpaper because it is thinner and the cylinder will be somewhere near 1" ID. The 1/2" is because the paper towel is thicker. JM tar is a thick tar sold by Air Rifle Headquarters, another great company that sells kits for air guns . It's also based here in the US. I believe that Vortek sells some kind of tar too, but if not, I'm sure someone here will post an alternative product. Another thing I just thought of is to make sure the ends of your spring are flat, if they aren't just grind them flat. It makes a big difference in smoothing out the shot cycle.


Thanks again!

What do you think the chances are of being able to open the spring cylinder up, smoothing it out, and putting it back together WITHOUT damaging the piston seal? Pretty slim or pretty good?

_________________
AA S510 Xtra FAC Ultimate Sporter *CARBINE* .22
CZ200S "Green" .177
Feinwerkbau 800 Evolution Top
Air Arms S400 MPR FT .177
Steyr EVO 10
Benjamin Sheridan 397P
Stoeger X5 (non-PAL)
Crosman P1377 & P1322


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:39 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Illinois
If it's not damaged now and you're careful, no problem. I try to twist the piston as I pull it out and when reinserting it. Just go slow over the cut outs. If it isn't damaged or even if it is a little, you'll still be able to shoot. I found that every seal on my RWS guns was nicked at the factory. Seems to be common with them. You've got a great gun there and I'll bet they take more care with assembly. I'd be interested in hearing how the Vortek kit does when you get it installed.

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"You repair things with tools, you fix things with a hammer, if you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem !"


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
All the details of that work are in the guide I gave you. I did give you the guide for tinkering with something didn't I??
The 3/8" tube or dowel wrapped with duct tape to the ideal dia for the gun, then sandpaper over that, then spin it with a drill to neatly and perfectly hone out the whole gun. I hone the inside of the piston too, and transfer port. If you don't have it just ask; chevota at hotmail, assuming you're interested...
For a Weihrauch I'd consider not honing the tube since it's such a nice gun, but entirely up to you. Your tube will only have burrs at the inside edge of any cutouts, like the cocking slot, trigger slot etc. For those I simply use a ceramic file to remove them and round the edges, and/or a Dremel with either a stone or roll of sandpaper to get the tougher spots. If the guns has metal to metal damage from use then there are fixes for that too.


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