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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:33 pm
Posts: 240
Location: Yukon
RobertMcC wrote:
So I took apart my new Phantom 22 I bought last night to do the piston mod ( Yes I got my PAL ) to find out NO relief port. It was only shooting around 400-410, 450 ( was max ) with 14.3 grn.

So I cannot do the piston mod. My guess they detuned them with a different piston and spring.

Guess I need to order the 1000 kit. I have a addiction.

Image


So anyone know when the piston change happened? Based on serial number or manufacture date? Are the old models still available new? I recently purchased a 22 phantom. 700 fps in 22 would be awesome.
Also by piston mod did you mean a nitro piston or something much simpler? any links? BTW i have an unrestricted PAL


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:59 am 
tango wrote:
RobertMcC wrote:
So I took apart my new Phantom 22 I bought last night to do the piston mod ( Yes I got my PAL ) to find out NO relief port. It was only shooting around 400-410, 450 ( was max ) with 14.3 grn.

So I cannot do the piston mod. My guess they detuned them with a different piston and spring.

Guess I need to order the 1000 kit. I have a addiction.

Image


So anyone know when the piston change happened? Based on serial number or manufacture date? Are the old models still available new? I recently purchased a 22 phantom. 700 fps in 22 would be awesome.
Also by piston mod did you mean a nitro piston or something much simpler? any links? BTW i have an unrestricted PAL


Piston mod used to be filling the relief hole in the piston. I assume they had a heavier spring in it. But when you plugged the hole you got around 680 MAX FPS. Well as you can see a new one doesn't have it. So they detuned it by a much weaker spring.

The spring guide is smaller so it should be able to fit the Quest 1000 spring. so rather than a piston mod, you just need to do a spring change. Well for me it looks that way.

2010 they changed the length of the piston to the shorter used in both air rifles.

As for when they changed the relief valve dunno.

I'm finding out what a spring cost.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:13 am 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Eastern Townships, P.Q.
tango wrote:
RobertMcC wrote:
So I took apart my new Phantom 22 I bought last night to do the piston mod ( Yes I got my PAL ) to find out NO relief port. It was only shooting around 400-410, 450 ( was max ) with 14.3 grn.

So I cannot do the piston mod. My guess they detuned them with a different piston and spring.

Guess I need to order the 1000 kit. I have a addiction.

Image


So anyone know when the piston change happened? Based on serial number or manufacture date? Are the old models still available new? I recently purchased a 22 phantom. 700 fps in 22 would be awesome.
Also by piston mod did you mean a nitro piston or something much simpler? any links? BTW i have an unrestricted PAL


Here is the Phantom's piston with a bleed hole. People plug this hole, either with JB Weld or by making threads and using a screw (cut flush with the piston's face), to get more power.


Attachments:
IMG_4717.JPG
IMG_4717.JPG [ 133.05 KiB | Viewed 2915 times ]

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Not enough time
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:33 pm
Posts: 240
Location: Yukon
Thanks you guys, for the feed back. I am a newb so am trying to learn. You people make this site great.
cheers
tango


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:33 pm
Posts: 240
Location: Yukon
RobertMcC wrote:
tango wrote:
RobertMcC wrote:
So I took apart my new Phantom 22 I bought last night to do the piston mod ( Yes I got my PAL ) to find out NO relief port. It was only shooting around 400-410, 450 ( was max ) with 14.3 grn.

So I cannot do the piston mod. My guess they detuned them with a different piston and spring.

Guess I need to order the 1000 kit. I have a addiction.

Image


So anyone know when the piston change happened? Based on serial number or manufacture date? Are the old models still available new? I recently purchased a 22 phantom. 700 fps in 22 would be awesome.
Also by piston mod did you mean a nitro piston or something much simpler? any links? BTW i have an unrestricted PAL


Piston mod used to be filling the relief hole in the piston. I assume they had a heavier spring in it. But when you plugged the hole you got around 680 MAX FPS. Well as you can see a new one doesn't have it. So they detuned it by a much weaker spring.

The spring guide is smaller so it should be able to fit the Quest 1000 spring. so rather than a piston mod, you just need to do a spring change. Well for me it looks that way.

2010 they changed the length of the piston to the shorter used in both air rifles.

As for when they changed the relief valve dunno.

I'm finding out what a spring cost.


It will be interesting to find the cost. Think a complete kit I saw for 60 bucks and the rifle at 85 leaves room for mods. very good buy in my mind.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:44 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:13 pm
Posts: 201
Piston here... http://store.onlinecamp.com/en/parts/cr ... -100a.html

Spring here... http://store.onlinecamp.com/en/b18-00-4 ... pring.html

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:55 pm
Posts: 89
Location: Elmira
All you need is the spring for the newer Phantoms. The PP gave you a link. I put the heavy spring in my Benjamin Classic .22 (same gun as the Phantom) Then I replaced the stock spring spacer with a shorter one. I find that the full power spring and the stock amount of preload makes the gun too jumpy. Another thing you can do is to add about 3/4" of preload to the stock spring. It will add about 30fps and you will still be under 500fps with 14.3grn pellets. You will also retain the easy handling shot cycle of the weak spring.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:02 pm 
GPZ1100 wrote:
All you need is the spring for the newer Phantoms. The PP gave you a link. I put the heavy spring in my Benjamin Classic .22 (same gun as the Phantom) Then I replaced the stock spring spacer with a shorter one. I find that the full power spring and the stock amount of preload makes the gun too jumpy. Another thing you can do is to add about 3/4" of preload to the stock spring. It will add about 30fps and you will still be under 500fps with 14.3grn pellets. You will also retain the easy handling shot cycle of the weak spring.


Yeah I want the full power. So you say to order the shorter spring spacer? Which one that one on the spring guide or front of the spring? You got a part # for that? Or would be the same as the quest?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:55 pm
Posts: 89
Location: Elmira
All you need to buy is the spring. For my gun I removed the stock spring spacer and used a bushing I picked up at TSC to replace the stock spacer. This put less preload on the spring and reduced power a bit but smoothed out the shot cycle. If you want maximum power leave the stock spacer in with the high power spring.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:23 pm 
GPZ1100 wrote:
All you need to buy is the spring. For my gun I removed the stock spring spacer and used a bushing I picked up at TSC to replace the stock spacer. This put less preload on the spring and reduced power a bit but smoothed out the shot cycle. If you want maximum power leave the stock spacer in with the high power spring.


Thanks...

Breach seal the same between 177 and 22?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:09 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Mtl
Hi guys,

I guess you were expecting to find a bleed hole in your 495fps rifle piston head? Those folks who bought their rifles 4-5 years ago may have this luck. Those years Crosman didn't take care to supply weaker springs for Canadian market. Instead of this they (Crosman) were drilling a tiny bleeding hole in the piston head. So, no wonder, people discovered it very soon, and the quickest and cheapest upgrade was to plumb that hole using JB Weld or even better using a soldering pen :), which was making the rifle to shoot 650...750 fps depending on caliber, etc. You can find several videos about this fix on YouTube. But later Crosman has produced special weaker springs for 500 fps airguns for Canada. Even if you're lucky enough to discover and plumb that bleeding hole in your rifle piston, still it is better to upgrade/swap your wire spring for a gas spring also. This upgrade will improve your accuracy significantly. You'll get rid of the nasty wire spring complex recoil. Your rifle won't be hold sensitive anymore which alone will be already an advantage especially when you need to shoot from not very comfortable positions, upward, etc.

I you're interested to get a gas spring, I have them. Please check this my post for details topic71088.html .
It is quite simple drop-in upgrade, no other parts needed.
Few technical tips:
you will need to pull the original spring guide terminator off. There are two ways to do it.
way 1. A forum member Chevota says: "To get the spring guide tube out I don't use any tools, I simply use the spring spacer as a slide hammer. If that doesn't make sense to anyone it will you when you have it in hand. " if this won't work for you, then try to hammer it off.
way 2. To give you better idea how to hammer it off pls check this video https://youtu.be/Pec-5crEtb0?t=7m17s
- watch it until 7:38 -- no need to see the rest. Well, you can )) but *do NOT use the adhesive tape like that guy does, because it can cause some misalignement* which is not good for the gas spring and can shorten its life. Btw, my gas springs are of higher quality than the ones on that video, so no tape needed. The metal disk which goes together with my gas springs is working the way so the spring gets perfectly aligned itself forced by the preload. This gas spring is a perfect fit. You insert it inside the piston the thick end forward and its diameter is just perfect, it doesn't play inside the piston body. There is a little machined cavity in the center of that steel disk to match the other end of the spring and align it natural way.

After this your rifle will be shooting 750...800 fps using Crosman Pointed or Crosman Premier hollow point (better accuracy).

_________________
.177 Crosman Optimus + Vado Performance Kit
.177 HW97k + JM Hornet Mk6 Kit


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:42 pm 
npMtl wrote:
Hi guys,

I guess you were expecting to find a bleed hole in your 495fps rifle piston head? Those folks who bought their rifles 4-5 years ago may have this luck. Those years Crosman didn't take care to supply weaker springs for Canadian market. Instead of this they (Crosman) were drilling a tiny bleeding hole in the piston head. So, no wonder, people discovered it very soon, and the quickest and cheapest upgrade was to plumb that hole using JB Weld or even better using a soldering pen :), which was making the rifle to shoot 650...750 fps depending on caliber, etc. You can find several videos about this fix on YouTube. But later Crosman has produced special weaker springs for 500 fps airguns for Canada. Even if you're lucky enough to discover and plumb that bleeding hole in your rifle piston, still it is better to upgrade/swap your wire spring for a gas spring also. This upgrade will improve your accuracy significantly. You'll get rid of the nasty wire spring complex recoil. Your rifle won't be hold sensitive anymore which alone will be already an advantage especially when you need to shoot from not very comfortable positions, upward, etc.

I you're interested to get a gas spring, I have them. Please check this my post for details topic71088.html .
It is quite simple drop-in upgrade, no other parts needed.
Few technical tips:
you will need to pull the original spring guide terminator off. There are two ways to do it.
way 1. A forum member Chevota says: "To get the spring guide tube out I don't use any tools, I simply use the spring spacer as a slide hammer. If that doesn't make sense to anyone it will you when you have it in hand. " if this won't work for you, then try to hammer it off.
way 2. To give you better idea how to hammer it off pls check this video https://youtu.be/Pec-5crEtb0?t=7m17s
- watch it until 7:38 -- no need to see the rest. Well, you can )) but *do NOT use the adhesive tape like that guy does, because it can cause some misalignement* which is not good for the gas spring and can shorten its life. Btw, my gas springs are of higher quality than the ones on that video, so no tape needed. The metal disk which goes together with my gas springs is working the way so the spring gets perfectly aligned itself forced by the preload. This gas spring is a perfect fit. You insert it inside the piston the thick end forward and its diameter is just perfect, it doesn't play inside the piston body. There is a little machined cavity in the center of that steel disk to match the other end of the spring and align it natural way.

After this your rifle will be shooting 750...800 fps using Crosman Pointed or Crosman Premier hollow point (better accuracy).


Thanks... 750-800 FPS in 22?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:27 pm 
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User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:09 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Mtl
RobertMcC wrote:
npMtl wrote:
. . .
After this your rifle will be shooting 750...800 fps using Crosman Pointed or Crosman Premier hollow point (better accuracy).


Thanks... 750-800 FPS in 22?


Hi Robert,
I've already replied your PM.
Ok, let me tell it here too.
I was able to chrony 800fps using .177 Crosman Optimus by shooting Crosman Pointed and Premier Hollow Point pellets. I don't know how much it gonna be for the .22 . But I can see there is number of satisfied .22 owners on some Russian forums who also did same upgrade. These springs are made in Russia and people telling good things about it. That why I decided to order a bundle.

_________________
.177 Crosman Optimus + Vado Performance Kit
.177 HW97k + JM Hornet Mk6 Kit


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:43 pm 
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Supporting Member 2009

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:41 pm
Posts: 997
Location: GTA
I hate to be a party pooper, but here I go.
It's nice to see new members joining us with such enthusiasm. I've noticed the forum has been getting sloppy lately with some of the basic rules.

Discussing power mods and increasing FPS has normally been done on the downlow. We don't want to atract any bad attention to our sport. All of the questions and information coming up lately is not new. A search on Google or on any forum will give you the answers.

Before we get on the news for negative reasons and put crosshairs on our hobby I think we should clean up our act a little bit.

I will likely repost this as a separate topic.I think if we don't clean things up we are headed towards a slippery slope.

Rant complete!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:34 pm 
Woody wrote:
I hate to be a party pooper, but here I go.
It's nice to see new members joining us with such enthusiasm. I've noticed the forum has been getting sloppy lately with some of the basic rules.

Discussing power mods and increasing FPS has normally been done on the downlow. We don't want to atract any bad attention to our sport. All of the questions and information coming up lately is not new. A search on Google or on any forum will give you the answers.

Before we get on the news for negative reasons and put crosshairs on our hobby I think we should clean up our act a little bit.

I will likely repost this as a separate topic.I think if we don't clean things up we are headed towards a slippery slope.

Rant complete!


Sorry you feel this way, but not being able to talk about things you legally can. Makes others just look at this sport/hobby and laugh.


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