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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:51 pm 
Spring compressor made, spring and seal kit shipped, NP shipped. Receiver de burred, piston polished. Stuff wont be in till maybe Friday or Monday :( Benjamin 312 down for parts for another week or two :(

I guess I'll throw pellets at the targets for now.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:14 pm 
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Chevota wrote:
npMtl: Your statements about coil and nitro are mostly those which are spread by false advertising and rumors. The only one that's actually true is coil are noisier, but that can be fixed and end up as quiet as a nitro, or even quieter.
Your friends velocity #'s are very low btw, so either he has a long piston, weak nitro, or both. Add about 50% power and you have a full power gun like mine using an oem Crosman coil spring.


My friend did nothing special to that Optimus, except the gas spring upgrade, well, a new piston seal also. I guess if we took care to change at least the breach seal also, then there would be +50...100 fps more. This can be done any day in 5 minutes.

I think your opinion is a kind of maximalism. This gas spring is cheapest, quickest and simplest drop in upgrade, a no-brainer, which makes a limited 500 fps rifle to shoot +350..400 fps stronger. The rifle becomes not totally perfect, but significantly better with no need to buy a myriad of other tuning parts. The proposed $60 set which consists of the gas spring + metal disk -- it makes the difference alone, nothing else required. And YES, it actually does improve the accuracy. This is for reason people learn the artillery hold to overcome the problems of springer recoil. The expert Tom Gaylord (aka BB Pelletier) been writing and telling about this several times - google and youtube it. The more expensive brands such as Weirauch, etc have some mechanical design improvements addressing these coil spring issues and minimizing side effects. For the sub-$200 Crosman budget rifles it is different, not an empty rumor. Like old adage says: "You get what you pay for". I can tell that in my case after the Optimus upgrade the accuracy has improved. This has also been told by many people.
I can also tell that in Russia these 3rd party nitro springs cost less and people getting and doing upgrades readily and more often, since most of them are not ready to spend over $200 for better airguns. There are slightly different economical realities and earning possibilities, that is why. This has built certain statistics and technically based opinions.

As for the velocity numbers, YES, it is possible to do a lot of things, e.g. get a shorter and lighter tuning piston - like you told, stronger spring (then deal with consequences), etc, etc. But if you calculate time and money expenses, does it all really make sense? Chrysler Neon can also be fixed, improved, tuned and end up as a redneck fanboy racing car, but who cares? I.e. wouldn't be it simpler to sell the gun, add some more money then get i.e. at least a Benjamin Trail NP, etc? I would only do that sort of complex upgrade/tuning if I had a ton of time and money to throw away in order to develop my skills. But even though this all makes sense only having very good barrel doing good groupings which is not an option in most cases for sub-$200 rifles.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:11 am 
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npMtl: I'm saying the velocity is rather low so why spend that kind of $ for it when a $13CA spring will likely do the same or better.
You said; "The rifle will be not hold sensitive anymore" Completely untrue, and on avg it will be worse.
Another; "one clear and quite important advantage - it gives clean linear vector and delivery of power, which is always parallel to the line of barrel" also untrue because it does not change between coil and nitro. This is what I meant by false advertising and rumors. People like Tom Gaylord do not really understand how these guns work, so apparently they just notice the quieter shot and think better, or maybe they regurgitate what others say, or maybe they accept $ or free guns for positive reviews.
Like the claims on the new NP2, such as it's "new" CBT trigger, but it's hardly new.. Or their recoil arrest, which is bs. Velocity/power which like most of their guns is bs. 10lbs less cocking effort, when it's only a few less. Imply the gun is US made when it's not. Plus misc other statements about how nitro's are better. Other mfgs do it too.
You also said; "I see this gas spring upgrade as a real advantage for the less expensive air rifles", in what way?
If the breech seal is costing 100fps then the gun should not be shot until fixed due to side effects.
It is very true that I like to go all the way when I work on a gun, because once you open it you might as well imo. I'm not talking about aftermarket parts to hot rod it, just normal oem parts from Crosman.
So the true simplest and cheapest way is a new coil spring, which one member told me was $13CA. The cheapest nitro conversion is $26US, not sure $ in CA but I suppose $50?
I asked for specs on your spring before but never heard back. Without the specs I would never buy or recommend it, especially with the fps numbers you just posted. If it is equal in strength to the oem unit, then the only advantage is that little disc.
I'm not trying to be a dik, just think you need to give those specs out and give truthful statements.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:10 am 
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Chevota,

I was looking into the spring upgrade options before ordering that bulk of air springs.
The only spring option for Canadians I saw "Crosman Optimus 1000 Repair Kit" at scopesandammo.com . It is $58 + tax + shipping which will total you around $80 . There is no way in Canada to get just a stronger spring at the price you mention. You live in the USA - it is different realities and opportunities.

As for the "The rifle will be not hold sensitive anymore" - my own experience confirms that - it is TRUE. When the compressed coil spring extends it does very subtle circular rotation motion plus certain amount of vibrations which are perpendicular to the line of barrel - simple as that. Imagine, if even the heart beat of the shooter affects the result, then what about the forces happening in the rifle itself?.. That why the relaxed artillery hold may help in case if you sight the rifle in that way and then keep shooting exact same way having those recoil motions working same way each shot. When you forget the artillery hold then your shot goes different way. This is not the case when there is a gas spring. I know something about mechanics and materials, it was a part of my educational program in the past.

I told you the internal pressure numbers of that spring. I didn't have time and proper tool at hand to take the diameters, sizes, etc.
All I know is that it works very well for the mentioned models as advertised and really improves the shooting experience.

Another point, this is for reason the competition rifles shoot under 600fps, so this spring upgrade which does 800..900fps is kinda of both worlds in between the smoothest/precise and the strongest 1180 fps - it is usually supersonic above this which is not good at all.

And finally, one more thing, being near 1180 fps which as I understand is your "holy grail" you're usually locked into heavier expensive pellets, such as JSB Monster, etc. While you save only once by buying a $15 coil spring, you lose more money every time while shooting. Otherwise the accuracy sucks. No point to shoot strong and far if it doesn't hit the target, simple as that.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:54 am 
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I bought one of those $75 phantoms from Walmart. Did a full lube tune and installed a factory full power Crosman spring I bought from Gravel Agency in Canada for $12. No other custom parts, just several hours of honin and stonin and polishing, and a relube with 65% moly.

Chrono'd this am. Crosman Premium hollow points at 735 for 17 fpe. Very accurate. Will probably come up some as the new seal wears in. It was a little snug, but I didn't turn it down any, thought I'd just let it wear in.

I'm very happy with the results.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:58 pm 
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npMtl: I know you want to unload those springs, but basically everything you said is not true.
I just don't want people to think this mod is going to magically transform their gun, which is what the mfgs do by putting the coil spring down and making outrageous claims for gas springs. The US price for the coil is $6.50, the Gravel Agency will apparently order whatever Crosman sells, and they apparently charge double my cost but in CA$. So $13CA...
I don't know where the whole spring torque thing comes from but I've heard it many times. I can't see how it happens, I'm unable to make it happen, and when I ask for video proof from those who insist it happens, I never hear from them again.
If you put a stronger spring in that gun, regardless of type, and it is no longer hold sensitive then I will eat my shorts on public TV. My guns are generally not very hold sensitive, basically not enough to worry about, but on avg the nitro/gas guns are more sensitive since they're stronger on avg.
Basically I think most all the nitro hype and claims are from it being smoother to cock and quieter to shoot. Like a car with a blown muffler isn't nearly as nice to drive as one with a new muffler, but really only the noise changed. That and the brainwashing from those selling the nitro guns. I agree gas is nice, but once people know the truth they see two are more evenly matched.
Yes heavy pellets are nicer, but you have to have the power to push them. I'm not going to shoot at 1100+ for any reason other than a shot or two for entertainment. 900-1k is more my range, but less than 900 and it better be a heavy pellet to make up for that speed. Speed is up to the shooter, but if they're sensitive about speed then again coil is the best choice since they're adjustable.
I don't remember the pressure you said but I do remember not having enough info to say if it'll work. I'd need the shaft diam and pressure to get power, then shaft and overall length to see if it fits the gun. I'm sure it does fit but I've seen people who think they fit but they really don't.
Again I'm not putting you down, I just want buyers to know the truth, and know the springs specs so they can decide if gas is what they want, and if they want your spring. Also know that Crosman sells three different strength gas springs (that I know of) that fit that gun, one of which is certainly much stronger, too strong imo, but <$8US. The other two are 26 so I'm guessing 52CA.
How about this, how much weight does it take to get the spring to compress just a wee bit? That will tell me a lot about it.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:51 pm 
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Chevota wrote:
npMtl: I know you want to unload those springs, but basically everything you said is not true.

Ok, how many gas spring upgraded unexpensive Crosman springer air rifles (<$150 US price tag) have you shoot? Did you really compare them by shooting before then after upgrade? I did it very carefully at least for a .177 Optimus and can tell the difference. If your statements are based on theory only then there is nothing to argue about. ...To Unload? Only 4 more left - I'll sell them sooner or later, just too lazy to mess with Amazon. It doesn't matter. The facts are of value for me here.

Quote:
I just don't want people to think this mod is going to magically transform their gun, which is what the mfgs do by putting the coil spring down and making outrageous claims for gas springs. The US price for the coil is $6.50, the Gravel Agency will apparently order whatever Crosman sells, and they apparently charge double my cost but in CA$. So $13CA...

are you Crosman employee or just making and selling something yourself? ..Anyways, no worries. I have a profession and day work. It was just humble attempt to try the waters in hope to make a little side business. Now I see there is no profit to bother about in the gun parts business.

Quote:
I don't know where the whole spring torque thing comes from but I've heard it many times. I can't see how it happens, I'm unable to make it happen, and when I ask for video proof from those who insist it happens, I never hear from them again.

Imagine, I would need time, another factory original Optimus and 60fps (frames per sec) video camera to proof it. The task is to shoot both versions of same rifle and film it at 60fps. Not everybody can have it all together and necessary skills, so no wonder they can't make a video for you.

Quote:
If you put a stronger spring in that gun, regardless of type, and it is no longer hold sensitive then I will eat my shorts on public TV.

:lol: what about the socks? ;) Your words can come back to haunt you. Read this true story, which is a part of Canadian history actually.

Quote:
My guns are generally not very hold sensitive, basically not enough to worry about,

What does it mean in particular? Can you measure it somehow? E.g. my grand father used to work as a blacksmith, 20lb sledgehammer was a regular daily tool for him...

Quote:
but on avg the nitro/gas guns are more sensitive since they're stronger on avg.

Now this your statement doesn't make any technical sense for this discussion at all. First of all by this you contradict yourself. You're telling me: "900-1k is more my range", while my fps numbers couple of messages back showing the best result 880fps. How come my 880..900fps gas spring can be stronger than your "900-1k" coil spring?? Really, I don't care what is "on avg".
I can tell that "900-1k" coil spring has a hell of side effects in comparison with the 880..900fps gas spring, since per my experience even 500fps coil spring does worse recoil effects and vibrations in a cheap rifle, than 880..900fps gas spring - this one being properly installed using the included round metal disk and making perfect fit inside piston body doesn't make vibrations at all .

Quote:
Basically I think most all the nitro hype and claims are from it being smoother to cock and quieter to shoot.

this is yet another advantage. The noise levels are very important for many folks.

Quote:
I agree gas is nice, but once people know the truth they see two are more evenly matched.
Yes heavy pellets are nicer, but you have to have the power to push them. I'm not going to shoot at 1100+ for any reason other than a shot
or two for entertainment. 900-1k is more my range, but less than 900 and it better be a heavy pellet to make up for that speed. Speed is up to the shooter, but if they're sensitive about speed then again coil is the best choice since they're adjustable.

How come the coil is adjustable inside the cheap Crosman rifle? Only by thinkering and playing with extra parts, washers, etc.
Not a real advantage. Btw, the spring I sell has a valve and can be dropped pressure using an Allen key. I can provide an instruction. Also just FYI Russian gunsmiths can service, pump it for higher pressure/fps, add oil inside, etc and charging an equivalent of just couple of bucks for this. But for North America it is not the case.

Quote:
I don't remember the pressure you said but I do remember not having enough info to say if it'll work. I'd need the shaft diam and pressure to get power, then shaft and overall length to see if it fits the gun. I'm sure it does fit but I've seen people who think they fit but they really don't.

it fits perfectly for every advertised rifle model. I don't know how the shaft diam affect power, I would say spring piston diam does, not the shaft, right? The shaft diameter can be any and doesn't matter.

Quote:
Again I'm not putting you down, I just want buyers to know the truth, and know the springs specs so they can decide if gas is what they want, and if they want your spring.

95% of people don't need this complicated technical litter to warp their brain with. The FPS numbers and the list of compatible rifle models -- is all what matters. 5 pcs sold and nobody complained so far.

Quote:
Also know that Crosman sells three different strength gas springs (that I know of) that fit that gun, one of which is certainly much stronger, too strong imo, but <$8US. The other two are 26 so I'm guessing 52CA.

sell me couple the ones at "<$8 US" please. Where can I buy them?

Quote:
How about this, how much weight does it take to get the spring to compress just a wee bit? That will tell me a lot about it.

I have no proper tools to measure this. I can't compress it non-installed, since it would be a dangerous experiment.
Sorry, but to my technical mind it looks like a BS to try to figure it out, since the FPS numbers tell it all. Well, if you're so technical, then it supposed to be possible to calculate. All I can add, that it was installed in a rifle which was almost new: less than 1500 shots and 4-5 month since purchase time, then it has been upgraded and chronied the numbers which I've already mentioned in this thread.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:28 am 
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npMtl. you are spot on about the NP vs Spring. Specially about the vibrations. Negligible torsion in NP compared to springs. I liked the shot cycle so much that I bought another OEM from Crosman in case the original conked out on me.
Happy to report .. well over 25 tins of 500 pellets (stopped counting after 25) still going strong .. no pressure loss in NP or muzzle energy & smooth as butter. I'd try one of yours if I didn't already have an extra. I suspect yours might be better than Crosman OEM.
Mind you I still like the spring 'choral vibrato' from my tuned (but not NP modded) Benji Classic . 22 - when I feel nostalgic.
Strange, I had asked Chevota for "video proof" of his claim that his tuned NPXl was doing 940 fps on average with 14.3 gr CPHP ... got some brush off evasive response.
Yep .. funny indeed how they disappear when you ask for video proof ... :oops:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:05 am 
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Thanks buddy. Your experience confirms mine and the what all the unbiased undependent technical people say on this topic.
To be honest, 10 pcs to sell - is not the business to bother too much about, it is to say there is no point to tell BS to people.
Over 12K shots on your NP and no power loss is a good sign. This also confirms that the people who make the NPs which I sell telling no BS by claiming that those last near 18K shots with no problems. They inject necessary amount of grease inside.

I have a plan how to test and demonstrate those vibrations. One day having all the necessary items together I'll make that video. It would be fun to see Mr Chevota eating his shorts. :lol:

GoodEnough wrote:
npMtl. you are spot on about the NP vs Spring. Specially about the vibrations. Negligible torsion in NP compared to springs. I liked the shot cycle so much that I bought another OEM from Crosman in case the original conked out on me.
Happy to report .. well over 25 tins of 500 pellets (stopped counting after 25) still going strong .. no pressure loss in NP or muzzle energy & smooth as butter. I'd try one of yours if I didn't already have an extra. I suspect yours might be better than Crosman OEM.
Mind you I still like the spring 'choral vibrato' from my tuned (but not NP modded) Benji Classic . 22 - when I feel nostalgic.
Strange, I had asked Chevota for "video proof" of his claim that his tuned NPXl was doing 940 fps on average with 14.3 gr CPHP ... got some brush off evasive response.
Yep .. funny indeed how they disappear when you ask for video proof ... :oops:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:07 pm 
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Oh god, are we really doing this? I'm not saying your spring won't make a gun shoot better than it did, I'm saying that like the factory claims it's exaggerated, expensive, and the drawbacks are not mentioned. I also believe the noise is a big factor in how people perceive the "improvement" as explained earlier, so a simple free fix can net them the same bennes. Yes your nitro conversion is easy, but imo
rather expensive. We still don't know your springs strength either. Do you tell customers that and how important their piston length is? I'd tell them that if they have a long piston then gains are limited by that and their focus should be that piston. So basically whatever was wrong with your test gun, piston or nitro, I could have made it much better for ~$10US and some work. I might even be able to do it for free depending on the gun. I could also make the same lower power level as yours but make it an even smoother shooter, quieter, amazingly easy to cock, and would last for life which is something a nitro cannot do. And I tell people how to do all this for free. Maybe that's your sore spot, I'm offering a free and better alternative... This is why the GRT trigger guy and his cohort want to sell people ~$60US in parts for one gun, so they don't like me and my cheap to free alternatives at all.
And yes the oem coil noise is a big factor, a huge one imo, but I simply quiet the coil and its vibrations so problem solved. I don't see how the noise and vibes of the spring affect the guns performance, but I and others hate that sound. Quieting the spring costs anywhere from free to $10, where actually $10 will do many guns. I do the free version. If you shoot a coil gun I've modded you'll think it's a nitro, except it's actually better. Remember the rash of scope breakages (which continues) when Crosman started selling the Trail and others with a nitro? That's a negative on nitro's that Crosman does not advertise. Or how many people rec'd nitro guns that won't fire, most of which were because the nitro was doa. I've owned, tuned and shot more break barrel guns than I can keep track of. Right now I have maybe 15 springers, not sure exactly. The only ones not tuned are one Diana 34 still new in the box, and a couple that are mid-tune or just robbed of parts etc.
If you can't figure out the how's and why's of these and other things I said, like how a coil is adjustable, why the nitro shaft dia is important, then I you clearly don't understand the guns or what's happening in them. Maybe you've also heard the one where these guns only need a 6" of barrel and any more only costs power, which is total bs.
You're like a Joe avg arguing with the IT guy about how your computer works. Very few people know these guns as well as I do, and what you've told me so far tells me you don't know them at all. Selling those springs was a stab in the dark and that's ok I suppose, but you're using customers as your test bed while feeding them the same bs info as the mfg's do. I also remember trying to help you with this but I guess you're not interested. The only advantage I can see to your product is that little disc, which is nice for people who don't have a hacksaw and drill to make their own which only takes a few min, and I share how with anyone who asks.
The $8US ($7.77) spring is NP214-012.
BT9M22-00-5 is the most common one and what most people want, $26.
BT5M22-00-1 is very cool for a lower power smoother shooter than the rather strong one above, $26.
ELS-012 along with ~3 other variants have power from too much to unknown since I don't have the others. I don't know the prices of the ELS springs. The BT9M has a high failure rate imo, so while it does work well when it does work, people need to know it may arrive doa, expire soon. They also tend to vent some pressure then stop, so the owner thinks they have full power and assume the easier cocking and smoother/better shooting is because the gun is broke-in. Crosman wants people to believe that. Then when they crony it they're upset at the #'s. Very few people crony so there are no doubt thousands of leakers out there and the owners have no clue. Most people just believe what the box says, like 23ftlbs or whatever fps, then they test it and get 16ftlbs or less which is common. Which leads me to another question, what is the quality, failure rate and expected lifespan of yours? Of course you don't know and being Russian it could as good as the best US or as bad a the worst Chinese. I imagine this is why Crosman will not extend their warranty past 12months, because they know as well as I do the nitro's are not a lifetime part. Btw, I have never broken a coil spring, not one. I've replaced a couple that apparently had bad metal or tempering and lost some power, but compared to nitro the coil is substantially more reliable. I've never had to replace a spring made in the US or Germany, only chinese springs.
The $8 nitro is too strong for the Optimus imo, as is the ELS-012, but people still do it. Some insist it's the coolest thing, but I disagree. I got an email last month from another who said he actually lost power by using this spring. Probably air leakage since the gun isn't designed to handle those pressures. Then of course there's all the negative side effects of using a stronger spring, which is why I disagree with using the strong ones.
The coil spring B18-00-4D for $6.57US ($13CA) is the one most will be happy with. Then the four or more others Crosman has plus various aftermarket springs that fit, and the adjustability of them which goes far beyond some washers. All those are parts (excluding aftermarket, obviously) are available from Crosman direct. In CA you buy from Gravel with their markup, and I've been told they can order anything Crosman has.
I actually remember being asked for a video of the XL doing 940, I believe my response was basically; what's the point since it can be faked a few different ways so it's hardly proof, aside from the fact that I'm not interested in doing it. The easiest way to "prove" it is to do what I freely tell people to do to their gun and measure it for themselves. It's not hard to do and if you have an XL I consider the work a must. Letting others verify it is proof. Most don't get the numbers I get because most are unwilling to properly tune the gun, they just slap in a new seal and lube and get ~900 or so. Plus altitude is a factor so some can never see that #. Mine was 940 @ ~1000' elevation, so I suppose corrected to sea level would be 950.
Maybe you can "prove" your spring is as good as the oem Crosman, or better than the $13CA coil spring? Maybe have some of your other customers give us some numbers too, and hopefully they'll be better than the last. I also control my velocity by pellet weight, so if I have an Optimus for example that shoots less than 1000, or even below 900, it's due to the pellet weight. If I use a generic light pellet it's blow past 1050 and alloy you can add another 200 or more to that. An Optimus hitting 1k with a mid weight 7.9gr is acceptable power imo, but most people get closer to 950, even down to 900 and below depending on flaws.
No I do not work for any airgun mfg or related org, nor do I sell anything other than guns I get tired of.
Showing a gun twist, or not twist on video is not too hard, nor does it require a special camera so I suppose most people could do it. I guess the trick is knowing how to do it. Imo this twist is all in the mind, as is the idea that gun shoots better when quiet. When I quiet a coil gun these mystery "problems" of coil springs go away. People are amazed, wow it's like butter and so quiet, bla bla bla.
You also cannot compare Crosman guns that are not tuned, or more specifically use one as an example. They vary far too much from gun to gun due to defects. You need to take an avg of many guns to even get an idea of a factory gun, then tune them to find out how they can work with those defects corrected. Like all these review videos people make, none are tuned and notice how their power and
accuracy vary so much. Many don't even let the grease burn off before testing it. It's like meeting one person one time for 5min and judging all people from that one encounter. Speaking of grease; your mfg injects grease inside the nitro? Why not oil which will be far more likely to get on the seal. How much grease, considering it affects the spring rate and internal pressures which can have negative effects on the gun. Or positive effects if pressure was low to begin with.
Omg, so tired of this thread, and typing.... You don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:06 pm 
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Chevota,

Imagine, I'm tired too. No point to argue and type too much.

As for the grease, well, it is actually probably oil. OK, let's call it lubricant. English is not my 1st language, sorry. I've been told that it is better to install that NP thick end forward. Then when you do not shoot, store the gun barrel up, so the lubricant would flow down to the NP's piston head which is good.
I've always been asking people to send me their chrony results to build statistics, but never received ones.
Meanwhile I have one more order from same person, who asks one more spring for his friend - you see, there is no BS here. It actually works as advertised.
This NP already delivers improvement to a rifle. Not everybody wants to mess with rifle mechanics by cutting pistons, etc.
I understand you're enthusiast, you seeing things different way. I would not hesitate a minute to give you my rifle and pay your tuning work.
But sometime people want just a simple drop-in solution.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:56 am 
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Chevota, so in other words; no video .. right ? :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:29 am 
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Location: Thunder Bay
My Phantom has about 200 shots through it after the lube tune and spring swap. When first installed, the spring guide was loose in the new spring and it buzzed like a bunch of angry hornets. I have had good results with shrink tubing the spring guide in two other B18s so I did this one as well. The guide must be turned down enough that the application of the shrink tubing will result in a snug fit inside the spring. Too tight and the tubing will shred. Too loose and it still buzzes. I have had good results with the oleofin(sp?) tubing sold at tooltown. It shoots now with a nice "thwok". A piston liner would probably have the same effect. Before the shrink tubing, it vibrated enough that it loosened the screws after 20 shots. Now the screws stay put. That amount of vibration would significantly reduce the life of the spring. Besides, it was so noisy as to be embarrassing...

It now chronos 725fps with CPHP. ES is 5-7fps. Accuracy is what you would expect (with a trigger mod, of course) with an extreme spread that low. No need to de-tune this gun to find the sweet spot.

I'm a very happy camper.

_________________
12 springers and a couple of pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

I'm not multitasking. I'm doing something else until I remember what I was doing.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:09 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Mtl
some people have time and desire to experiment and do things their own way: disassembling many times, cutting, adjusting, changing springs, guides, shims, etc. The others have no time for this, or their time is too valuable because of profession, family, etc. So for these it is probably easier to buy a "nobrainer" solution.

Chevota,
if you say you have desire to share your knowledge with other air gun enthusiasts then it probably makes sense to create a some tutorial video or blog page with some pictures, drawings, instructions, etc. I believe, this would work way more efficiently than writing single messages on various forums.

_________________
.177 Crosman Optimus + Vado Performance Kit
.177 HW97k + JM Hornet Mk6 Kit


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:52 pm
Posts: 7140
Location: Vancouver Island BC
All this crap over a Phantom ...


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