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 Post subject: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:43 am
Posts: 14
Location: Calgary, AB
Ok guys... I'm looking for thoughts, ideas, and resources for modding my first airgun. I've been out of the loop for 30 years and I'm starting small with a nice new Crosman 1377 which I purchased yesterday at Cabela's for $99, then I found it cheaper online, but I already shredded the packaging to get my big mitts on it.

I'm looking to accurize it, ruggedize it, and in doing so make it more reliable. Where to start? Let's assume I know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, which is very close to the truth since the last time I touched an airgun was when I was 15.

Any assistance, advice, and lessons learned would be most welcome in regards my Crosman 1377 Project.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:57 pm
Posts: 1754
Location: mb
Get Lost; We don't like Newbies!

Bwhahahahaaa!

Sorry, inside joke for me, and the other voices in my head. . . .

Welcome aboard! Congratulations on purchasing a Crosman Money Pit, ahem, I mean 1377. . . .

My list would be: Most are searchable terms,

1. Plug Bleed - all other performance mods require this.
2. Trigger Polish - Mirror shine all contact surfaces including hammer = Way Better Trigger!
3. Debur and Polish Hammer and Action Tube - You'll need to give the tube some 'love' in the area of the pump pivot, in order to be able to reassemble the gun, without cutting the pump cup, and valve O ring. You might as well give the whloe tube some 'love' and debur and polish any rough spots out now. Beneficial to longterm peace of mind.
4. Transfer Port - Optional - match the internal dimension of the TP to the valve(5/32)
5. Smooth and Debur Valve Ports - You don't heve to go crazy, just smooth things out a little. At this point in time, there is no need to enlarge anything in the valve. Nothing!

Now you have an honest 500 in under 15 Pumps(~12-13 every gun is a little different)gun. In order to achieve 500 in under ten, you must go Flat Top Piston.

Good Luck! And again seriously, welcome aboard!

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:03 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 57
Location: Kingston, ON
I'm a newbie too! Also back into air guns after a 30 year hiatus.

I'm still seriously considering a 1377/1322 or 2289 myself. I mean... for my son... yeah that's it, that's the ticket. (anyone else remember that character? :lol: )

I did a lot of research and it seems a steel breach is a priority if you want to mount a scope, and adding the shoulder stock is a very cheap way to increase accuracy (plus, IMHO, it makes for a very nice looking little carbine). Seems like a lot of 1377/1322 modders switch out the pump handle for one from the 2289 as apparently it provides a better grip and less likely to pinch yourself when pumping. Trigger work would be one of my first projects as well. Bear in mind, you and I have the same absence of experience, I'm just passing on what I read and my speculative opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:27 am
Posts: 2586
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
For a really controllable trigger (depends on how important trigger is to you), the ultimate would be a 1701-P grip-frame and trigger assembly. A bit $pendy though... and the hammer will have to modified for this grip frame assembly...

I'll add a bit to what Vagrant said about stock triggers~ you can get the stock trigger down from 15 lb pull weight to about 2 1/2 with his de-burr/polish and a lighter sear spring. The current 13-XX ( familial reference point for 13-77 ) stock unit is a lawyered far too stiff spring. I've gotten a few good trigger springs for the 13 series out of Princess Auto's grab bag of coiled springs. Don't discard the stock sear/trigger spring. It makes a good valve stem return spring to replace the again far too stiff stock spring...

Cornfused yet? Yes? Yeah, good! 8)

Steel breech...

packer frame stock...

reasonable quality optics..

it'll start adding up...

Fortunately, a search on this sub-forum for 13-XX mods will turn up a wealth of info.
Welcome to the addiction- erm, I mean air gun fraternity...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:43 am
Posts: 14
Location: Calgary, AB
:D ... thanx guys

I took 15 minutes last night to "kick the tires" a plink a couple of cans. There are lots of plastic and wobbly bits on these new Crosman 1377's. I'm not a fan so far, but I am persistent and am willing to brave the wilderness in my search for non-plastic and non-wobbly bits perfection.

On that... what's the difference between steel, aluminum and brass for parts? Preference or performance? Or is is durability? I realize aluminum maybe weight related too, but I find aluminum scuffs up and looks crappy after a short while. Always been a fan of heavy iron... but brass eludes me!

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:52 pm 
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Posts: 2
I'm new to the forum and this hobby too, but my buddy got me into the 1377 so I'll be watching this one. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:27 am
Posts: 2586
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
No experience yet with brass breeches. Blued steel and anodized aluminum seem to stand up equally well for me~ and I've been known to do the "over-kill" Hubble scope thing with mine.
I haven't really heard anything negative on brass breeches for that matter either...

The metal breech not only gives a stable optics mounting point- it also make a very good barrel retention system with it's grub screw for the bbl. You'll notice muchly reduced pumper bbl flop compared to the plastic stock breech. Brass does make a very nice pivot pin/bbl band block...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:43 am
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Location: Calgary, AB
Considerations before I start my project… benchmarking. How will I measure the results of my changes from the basic over-the-counter Canadian Model 7-1377 to the new-and-improved “Nukem Model 1377”.

Firstly let me clarify… The American Classic is the Model 1377C, this is not available in Canada as idiotic Canadian legislation prevents airguns over 500 feet per second (fps) to be sold without a firearms Possession and Acquisition License (PAL). That being said, good luck finding one in Canada even if you do have a PAL. So we Canadians typically make do with the Canadian-American Classic Model 7-1377 rated at 495 fps.

Attachment:
p1377.jpg
p1377.jpg [ 222.36 KiB | Viewed 1767 times ]


So back to the meat and potatoes… benchmarking. I will have three things to consider; ammunition choice, accuracy, and velocity. Now bear in mind my goals are accuracy, ruggedness and reliability of the pistol.

I started a discussion on .177 ammunition in a different thread and it seems I will have my work cut out choosing a suitable plinking-hunting pistol pellet. And so I will venture forth to my local store and purchase a wide selection of pellets and attempt an accuracy test to find a suitable pellet for my model 7-1377. The consensus is that a heavier hunting pellet would be best for my purposes. That also being said, it is always best to practice with the same ammunition you will use in the field. So pellet choice will be critical in establishing a benchmark for accuracy and hunting capability.

I also must consider velocity… keeping it “legal” in Canada isn’t really an issue for me as I am a PAL holder, however I would like to keep it legal for those of you who do not possess a PAL. And so a good chronometer is required. This is a relatively expensive purchase for benchmarking an air pistol, but I recently also started home loading for my 7mm Remington Magnum hunting rifle, so it’s a necessary purchase.

I did a brief Google search and came up with a number of articles:
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/08/do-you-really-need-a-chronograph/
http://www.shootingchrony.com/products_SCMMCM.htm
http://www.competitionelectronics.com/product/prochrono-digital/
http://www.chuckhawks.com/pro-chrono.htm
http://www.oehler-research.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=35P

Randy Wakeman’s article swung my decision and I chose the affordable ProChrono by Competition Electronics ($119 USD or available on Amazon.ca for $179 CAD). My close second would be the Beta model Shooting Chrony ($170 CAD from Cabelas.ca), and lastly I discounted the hugely expensive Oehler $600 USD. This Chrono does absolutely everything a professional shooter could ever want! But that’s not me 8) , and I have a wife :?

Attachment:
Competiton-Electronics-Prochrono-Digital-Chronograph_CEI-3800_lg.jpg
Competiton-Electronics-Prochrono-Digital-Chronograph_CEI-3800_lg.jpg [ 10.22 KiB | Viewed 1767 times ]


Now I just have to wait for my package to arrive… :D

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:57 pm
Posts: 1754
Location: mb
First off; thanks for not taking my fist sentence to heart, and never posting again. . .
It's part of a skin thickness test, I'll be using in my personal vetting process for new members. Yours appears to be appropriate. Good on Ya'. . .:lol:
Quote:
. . . my goals are accuracy, ruggedness and reliability. . .

Right outta the box, the 1377 is a very reliable gun IMHO. Rip one from it's clamshell, use the heck out of it, and as long as it gets a drop or two of oil every couple
years, there's very very little to go wrong with it. . . If everything you do going forward respects this, you should end up with a dead reliable shooter in the end. . .

Steel breech and MIM sight, with an anodised barrel band, and the ruggedness requirement becomes primarily fulfilled. There's other plastic in/on the gun, which can
of course be replaced with other metals or wood(grips), but I like to use the stock furniture for trunk or field guns.

I've had quite good luck with 1377 barrels. I give the crown a little bit of love, polish the leade a touch, debur the port, add an extended probe, and bring on the pellet testing. . .

I've found them to be the least pellet fussy barrels in my airsenal. Sincere hopes that your experiences will be parallel.

Keep up the documentation of the process! This could be a great thread. . . . :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:42 pm
Posts: 50
Knukem,
I'm no lawyer and I know you're planning to keep it Canada-legal (sigh...), but bear in mind that, because 1377 are sold as "pistols", IF you exceed the 500fps and 4.2ftlbs limits, you will then be in possession of a genuine "restricted" firearm. Unless you have an RPAL, that is. And even then the gov't would love to give you grief. It's all very silly, but even if you put a 40" barrel on it, the authorities will designate it a pistol because of the stamp on the tube. 'least that's my understanding. These are government bureaucrats after all...
But enough a dat guff! I wait with bated breath your detailed progress reports.
Goodluck!
(ps- i strongly recommend buying a 2289 with 14" barrel as aback up & doing chrony tests with 14.3gr pellets & posting the results.)
(pps- yes, i have a stock 2289 and am too cheap to buy a chrony but i want benchmarks!)


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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:23 pm
Posts: 140
Location: Canadian Prairies
N1knukem,

Maybe try this out. Could be interesting!

http://www.airgunsource.com/clear-ballistics


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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:36 pm
Posts: 710
Location: nvvan
Here's my example of how far you can go modding the 13xx pumpers..



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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:46 am
Posts: 4121
that's a sweet 1377.... 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 1395
Location: r Alberta
They start to get pretty nice after about $400 in new bits and pieces.


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 Post subject: Re: Crosman 1377 Project
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:46 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Canada
Plasticman wrote:
They start to get pretty nice after about $400 in new bits and pieces.


Sounds about right. :lol:

Al


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