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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 9:33 am 
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^^^not only that im pretty sure the accuracy will suffer as well...

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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:31 pm
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There's a paper airplane design that's basically a cylinder with a thick front edge. You throw it with a spin and it flies okay, though not as well as a dart design.

I suspect that you'll get a lower BC due to the increased air friction going through the narrow internal passageway.


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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
I'm all about experimenting, and I still encourage you to do it, but I have extremely low expectations of success with BC or accuracy.
I never tried that but I did drill some in an attempt to make a whistle out it, you know, so it would basically scream, like an audio tracer round. No point other than to see if I could, and I could not... Pellets hiss a bit normally and all I could do is make that hiss a bit louder but no actual whistle sound, nor was it loud enough to be entertaining.
I think if you want BC you kinda hafta go the old fashioned route using aerodynamics and weight, which typically make for good accuracy too, and they come premade for cheap in tins of 500 ;)
If I were to attempt this test I'd no doubt use a JSB "Beast" pellet which is ~16gr with almost no waist, so it's sturdy, has plenty of area to drill out for experimenting with hole size, and of course it has mass so even if you remove half the weight it's still a mid-weight pellet which is good. Making a wad that'll seal the air but pop off I dunno... Depends on the gun but they can generate a lot of pressure so it would need to be pretty tough, yet shaped so that it doesn't press into the pellet and get stuck. I suppose I'd consider a setup like how a cardboard wad is used in 12ga shooting a pellet shaped slug. Ironically I have some giant 525gr wadcutter pellets that are for 12ga (Lyman 525gr slug) and I use cardboard that is extremely tough and ~3/16" thick? under the "pellet" and it works great. The pressure is substantially higher but between the pressure source and the stiff cardboard is ~1" of very soft cardboard, if you can call it that, it's almost cotton like soft. It cushions the blast but still amazing the stiff piece of cardboard doesn't simply get stuffed into the base of the pellet. I digress, but point is you need to think up something that's strong enough to survive but very light so it doesn't suck up power. You also need to figure out how to make said "wads" the perfect diameter. I'm thinking like plastic and a hole punch? Like a steel tube with the ID is the dia you need, like .018"? Then sharpen the outer edge of the tube till sharp and use it to punch the plastic or whatever your dealies will be made from.
Another idea, and I'm thinking outside the box a bit, but I spoze maybe making a "cold roll mold" (sorry I can't think of the proper nomenclature). Basically you'd punch, hammer or press raw lead into the shape you want instead of trying to drill it. Like a piece of steel ~1/4" thick with a .177 or so hole in it which you could pound lead into to make a slug, but add a steel rod to the center so it also makes your hold. If you google that Lyman slug you can see they kinda do similar to make the hollow base.
Just some thoughts.....


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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:56 pm
Posts: 462
Location: Tecumseh, Ontario in South Western Ontario
Chevota wrote:
If I were to attempt this test I'd no doubt use a JSB "Beast" pellet which is ~16gr with almost no waist, so it's sturdy, has plenty of area to drill out for experimenting with hole size, and of course it has mass so even if you remove half the weight it's still a mid-weight pellet which is good.
I'm thinking like plastic and a hole punch? Like a steel tube with the ID is the dia you need, like .018"? Then sharpen the outer edge of the tube till sharp and use it to punch the plastic or whatever your dealies will be made from.

That's the exact pellet I was going to use for all the same reasons. Btw it's also one of my favorites as is.
Again like you I was thinking thin aluminum sheet and a hole punch. Instead of looking for a tube with the right ID I was just going to drill the end of a 1/4" bolt with a .018" bit right through and sharpen as you said to stamp out aluminum slugs.
Another reason I didn't want to reveal what I had in mind besides the usual negativity is I'm so busy I may not get to it until autumn. You may have heard other recent retirees say that they don't know how they used to find the time to go to work. We'll it's happened to me. I think it has something to do with having put off all those chores I should have been doing all along lol.
And yes it's the fun of thinking and experimenting that I like - It doesn't have to work.
Thanks,
--Ed.

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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 9:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:39 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Illinois
If you want to drill in soft lead, you'll need a flat tipped bit. A pointed bit pulls itself and makes it hard to control.

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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 10:23 pm 
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Location: United States
Nod: I don't know how you'd control a bit with a flat face, or where you'd even get one. I use a regular good quality split point but I'm just more careful when I drill soft "catchy" stuff like plastic or sheet metal etc. I've drilled lead before and it actually drills very nicely.

That alum "wad" will not seal in the rifling so you'll be relying on the skirt to seal, then the alum to seal against the very small area of contact it has with the lead. Not sure that's going to work... Plus the alum will want to distort the lead, no doubt unevenly too so there goes accuracy. I'm really leaning towards cardboard or plastic that can fit the rifling so it pushes nice and evenly on the pellets skirt. And of course it has to detach, can't have random wads sticking and such, they need to come off right away and w/o issue or you're screwed.
Since you said you like those 16gr, is it safe to say the gun is not a springer? I always assume people have springers, and this will be a factor in how the wad will work. So gun details please to help me think of possible options. The more I know about what is needed, the more likely my subconscious will spot possible items that might work. I imagine your brain works like that too?
I'm also the same way with experiments, it's more about learning and entertainment than anything else. If it works great, if not then now you know and either way you learned something. Don't feel bad about the time either, I have airgun experiments and and tests that are years behind. For example; I promised to cut the barrel of a generic Crosman springer down about 2" at a time to post the power loss, but I think that was like two years ago? The barrel is right here collecting dust, and rust...


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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 6:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:56 pm
Posts: 462
Location: Tecumseh, Ontario in South Western Ontario
Chevota; It's not a springer - it will be shot from a pcp.
The reason I like the small aluminum stopper is because of it's light weight and strength since it's a total waste of energy. There's no better seal or accuracy then using the original lead skirt on the pellet.
Btw since I don't have the time or the best tools I have no problem with someone else giving it a try and letting us know the results.
--Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 8:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:39 pm
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Location: Illinois
Chevota wrote:
Nod: I don't know how you'd control a bit with a flat face, or where you'd even get one. I use a regular good quality split point but I'm just more careful when I drill soft "catchy" stuff like plastic or sheet metal etc. I've drilled lead before and it actually drills very nicely. .


Actually, I should have said "use a low rake" bit. I had my machinist friend drill out an 11" piece of lead for a clock weight and he ground a bit down to do it. Lead can be hard to drill as it's hard to keep the bit straight.

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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:00 pm
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Location: Vancouver Island
Out of my league here but, maybe a dab of hot-melt glue would act as the stopper. Wouldn't weigh much and possibly adhere to the pellet to prevent aerodynamic turbulence through the centre hole. Just guessing.


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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:23 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:07 am
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Location: Central West River Nova Scotia
have you considered using a plumbing washer/seal, to hold the pellet, for drilling ? It may need to be drilled out for the dia of the pellet, but might hold it tight enough to prevent spinning.

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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6015
Location: P.G. B.C.
Slugs for rifles and smoothbores from about .30 calibre all the way up to 12 bore size (.730") have already been tested with holes all the way through them. It was thought these holes would add to the stability and straight flight of the projectiles. These sort of tests were started (recorded) in the larger bored rifles and smoothbores in the late 1890's, found to not work or not to be worth the effort, then these concepts were resurrected every 20 to 40 or so years right up until today. Guns and Ammo magazine published articles on this, along with a history of these sorts of tests, outside radial grooving (as in rifled slugs) as well as through and through holes as different shapes thought to aid in aerodynamics, with holes blocked by plastic, or wood that fell away after leaving the muzzle. The results have always been negative.

I don't mean to put you off your experiment, maybe it will work with the small pellet, although I rather doubt you will see good results with such small projectiles - but, carry on - have fun!

I just thought you should know these concepts and experiments have been tested for over 120years or so - and never with positive results. Perhaps the projectiles tested in the past were too large?

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 Post subject: Re: Drilling a pellet.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:56 pm
Posts: 462
Location: Tecumseh, Ontario in South Western Ontario
Thanks Daryl. You just saved me a lot of frustration. How did you find that information? I try to see if my unorthodox ideas have been tried before, which by the way is often, but I couldn't find anything on hollow bodied projectiles. I have a lot of other projects in mind without chasing a bad bet.
--Ed.

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