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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 7:54 pm 
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This is a total newb question, then again that's me and airguns, especially when springers are concerned.
Just picked up this old Gamo Expo 2100 for a bargain and surprised by how firm it feels. Locking mechanism is tight with a strong click. Will post a review of it sometime but first need to give it some care. It fires strong, the first two shots were weak but the third had the .22 wadcutter embedded into the duct seal as much as the new Phantom. Suspect it may be even stronger but don't want to fire it till I give it a bit of a lube job.

And that's where I could use guidance. Haven't lubed a springer before, other than cleaning the old smelly factory oil from a badly dieseling cheapo Princess Auto B1 with the oil in the pic. I realize I should not use pellgun oil in a springer but would this Dupont teflon lubricant work? I use it for most things and it's a superb oil, even use it my motorcycle's chain. Doesn't attract dust and stays on good, despite being thin (but not as thin as WD-40). Suppose it'd be ok to use in the hinges but should I put a drop or two inside the barrel? As is the rifle has zero dieseling, barrel is clean and the rifling looks good. Once I remove the stock I suppose I should lube the trigger mechanism and all other moving parts, but wonder if this oil will be a good bet? If not would machine oil work? Kinda like the stuff you use in your pneumatic air gun (not airgun, the actual tool, like a brad nailer).
Or, if there is a guide here in the forum could someone please point it in my direction.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:10 pm 
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I know very little about springers and maintenance - but - sounds as if the bore of the air cylinder at the "fired" position was dry- gun stored on it's butt. It took a couple shots - cocking it, to lube the seal, then it sealed and shot with force. It needs a strip and re-lube- moly grease for the spring- normal stuff. The Teflon oil should be fine for hinges.

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:30 pm 
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So this means removing the spring? Crap, never done that before. Guess there's always a first time for everything. Will first need to build a spring compressor, correct?
And your guess appears correct, gun was likely stored upright, if the dust sitting on it was an indication. The good news is, with proper lubing it should fire pretty strong. Very pleased with what I see so far.
OK to put a few drops of oil inside the barrel too? Or no need for this?

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:13 pm 
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Is this the stuff that I want? http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motom ... z5--Mdxt0c

How much of it do I apply? Should I also get some inside the tube the spring goes in (called a spring guide I guess)

Also found an easy way to use a car jack as a spring compressor, have plenty of these to pick from, so I'll be all set once I get the proper grease.
Cool, will finally be taking apart a springer. Just hope not to lose an eye in the process. Already made a trip to the emergency room last month due to a mishap with the table saw (which spared my eye by an inch). Guess I'll put on my full face helmet while at it.

Edit: added a pic of the page, since canadian tire links don't always work.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 11:29 pm 
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I'm not a springer guy, but I do know that the CT moly grease isn't what you're after. . . It might be as much as 5% Molybdenum disulfide, whereas the Assembly Paste is purported to be 77%. . . .

A very little bit, goes a very long way. It'll stain anything it touches; forever.

But it is reportedly "dabomb" for your endeavour. Good Luck!

Edited to add forgotten link: Honda Assembly Paste There are other brands as well, and varying % of Mos2.

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 11:54 pm 
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Use the search term "Honda" on this forum, and look at the posts back on pages 9-12. . Good Info.

Take pictures of everything as you disassemble, notes as well. Reverse for re-assembly. . . In theory anyway . . . :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 12:14 am 
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See if this link works. http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA2/library/Springer_Airgun_Lubing.pdf


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:12 am 
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Before I pull out the credit card and wait weeks for something to come from Amazon, can someone that has used the low percentage moly in their springers weigh in?

I'm skeptical of the self-proclaimed experts such as the guy that uses the pseudo "charlie da tuna" that says not use anything but a 65% poly content while offering no explanation as to why - instead saying to stay away from cheap stuff from places like Wally World. I'm not making this up, the guy actually used these words - refer to link above. Thanks for the link btw, it does offer some explanation of some of the different oils used in airguns. Although I'd like to someone like Chevota to confirm if da tuna's assertions are mostly correct.

60% molybdenum used in shaft driven motorcycles are subjected to absolutely incredible pressures and heat. Can this really be compared to a spring inside a tube being worked at a rate of roughly 1 to 2 compression/expansion per minute? Just trying to ascertain if indeed 60% molybdenum grease is required for an airgun.

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 4:55 am 
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Hi Joolz there is quite a bit of expertise on the forum here but untill they chime in here is my less expert kick at it. The goal with the moly is to get as much of it embedded in the micro pores of the metal. It is suspended in grease witch needs to be wiped away to prevent any dieseling. The usual way I believe is to try to burnish the moly into the metal. I like to use a home made hone made of a pvc tube wrapped with old 600 emery cloth for a snug fit and spin with a cordless drill. I the wipe as much off as possible before reassembly leaving only a small amount of the moly in the metal imperfections. Oil in the trigger group will change its feel so careful here as it could be a safety issue. And last.Charlie da Tuna sold a popular drop in trigger for many Chinese airguns for a while. He has a bit of a following. Hope this is of some help. Guy


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 6:14 am 
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Hey Joolz.
Good to hear you're going to take the plunge and tune your springer(s). I said (s) because once you have done one, you will do the rest of yours too. It really is that easy.

As to the grease, I used the cheap CTC grease the first time I lube-tuned a springer. It worked OK, the gun shot better, so I thought why bother with the expensive stuff? Then I acquired a large tub of the original Permatex 65% moly paste. The difference really is remarkable in the smoothness and firing cycle of the gun with the 65% paste.

pm me your address and I'll send you enough to do all your springers. My treat.

Read up on how to apply. Very little is needed. There's probably enough in the little tub to do 7 or 8 springers.

Rick.

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:36 am 
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Sorry-but I know little about this except i lubed my spring with Vaseline (which may be a sin) but seems to be working.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 11:03 am 
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 11:42 am 
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Joolz wrote:
I'm skeptical of the self-proclaimed experts such as the guy that uses the pseudo "charlie da tuna" that says not use anything but a 65% poly content while offering no explanation as to why - instead saying to stay away from cheap stuff from places like Wally World [...]

I would tend to trust Bob Werner (RIP) more than any "self proclaimed" experts of the CAF!

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 12:49 pm 
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ricksplace wrote:
Hey Joolz. pm me your address and I'll send you enough to do all your springers. My treat.

Thanks for the offer, Rick - but I just got off the phone with the giant Honda motorcycle dealership just a couple of minutes from my house and they have the high percentage moly paste in stock - for just $16.00. Yay!

Don't take me wrong folks, I'm all for using the proper stuff. What I can't stand is subscribing to hype. Which in this case, as it has been pointed out by hillbilly, isn't a matter of hype but of the scientific explanation that was lacking. I am now convinced that the 3% molybdenum found on car greases isn't ideal for airgun applications. Not a case of someone using premium gas in his old, non turbo beater cause it's "his baby".

It makes sense to use a grease (or in this case paste since it's so thick due to the high content of moly) that will greatly diminish the amount of friction on something as violent as a decompressing spring. There's even some talk about less chance of dieseling since the 3% stuff may have more petroleum in its 97% general grease composition. What I'm still not clear on is with the tar that some prefer to use on the spring itself, like that article by da tuna. Can someone please explain this and what you use?

Also very glad I don't have to deal with amazon and having to wait weeks for the order to arrive. Feel very fortunate to be able to simply walk into enemy territory (not a Honda guy here) and purchase the stuff, not 5 min from my place. And for a price that's only a bit more than the generic stuff from CTC.

Thanks all for the help with this very crucial step in the lubing thing.

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 12:59 pm 
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Joolz wrote:

It makes sense to use a grease (or in this case paste since it's so thick due to the high content of moly) that will greatly diminish the amount of friction on something as violent as a decompressing spring. There's even some talk about less chance of dieseling since the 3% stuff may have more petroleum in its 97% general grease composition. What I'm still not clear on is with the tar that some prefer to use on the spring itself, like that article by da tuna. Can someone please explain this and what you use?



Yes- my question exactly - what is the TAR- is that just the normal Moly paste?

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