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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:05 pm 
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Hey Joolz here is a quote from network 54 "March 24 2008, 10:32 PM

to break metal to metal contact, therefore it's an extreme pressure lube that's thick enough to stay put on the spring and not migrate past the seal. It's really good stuff with very high molly di sulfide content. There is the petroleum based "heavy tar" and the stickier synthetic based velocity tar. I personally like to use the heavy tar on the outside of the spring and velocity tar on the outside of a fitted spring guide. All tars are to be used very sparingly, only a thin film, and they aren't to be used to kill twang unless you don't care if the velocity drops or the point of impact shifts with temperature changes, especially early and late season when temps can vary 30 degrees or more from morning to afternoon. The main purpose is to minimize wear between rubbing steel to steel parts."

I remembered that J Macccari wrote about it years ago but this is what I able to find quick

Guy


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:13 pm 
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I am also allergic to bs internet remedy's


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 3:48 pm 
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Below is a pic of the stuff I got. Surprise by how big it is, that's enough grease there to last a lifetime. However is this even the right stuff? Couldn't find anything printed on it where it says it's 60% moly. Haven't opened the tube yet but it feels really creamy, about the same consistency as a hand lotion. Now I'm wondering if this isn't the paste I was led to believe I was getting. Clerk at the store couldn't get confirmation if this is indeed the 60 or so percent moly stuff.
Anyone tried this yet that can confirm?


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 6:40 pm 
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Ready to take it apart, but the more I read, the more confusing it gets, all sorts of suggestions for dozens of different oils, some are pro tar, some against. Some say you must use moly, others not to. Man, why is this so confusing and contradicting?

Would like to keep this simple. Don't want to run to 6 different stores to buy exotic oils. Want to use what I have at hand. Suppose I may have to run to a store to buy silicone oil which I understand must be used in synthetic seals. But seeing how old this Gamo is, chances are the seals are leather. If so, will it be ok to use machine oil? Same for the breech seal if leather? Some expert says it's OK to use pellgun oil in leather seals.

Will be wiping off everything first. Will remove all oil residue from everything I come across. Still not clear on how much of the moly to apply to the spring. Should I just wipe it on with a clean rag? Or should I leave a thin layer of moly on, maybe applying with a brush? Do I treat the entire spring?

Watched several youtube videos and each is more contradicting then the other. Not a single one shows the same technique or opinion. It's a surprise to me that more guns don't blow up seeing how different techniques are used, some using incredible amounts of oils/grease/tar.

Why is this so confusing??

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 7:01 pm 
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I will give it try. Like every thing you rightfully pointed out. There is many points of view. Guess this one is mine. . If you burnish in the main tube with moly containing grease. I mean really work it in to the metal to build up the amount of molly impregnated , I use a modified brake hone and a piece of pvc tube with a flapper of worn emery on the end. A thorough wipe with clean rags to get most of the grease base out. I clean everything and reassemble. I pay attention to see how straight the spring and guide line up. Tweak as necessary. The silicone oil will be fine to soften the leather piston. Use just enough to get soft. Debure all sharp edges while apart enjoy the process. It is a pretty simple mechanical device and it is pretty forgiving. This is probably the reason for so many opinions ( including my own) leave the tar business at this point for now. Have fun. Hope this is helpful. It is nice to use a gun you know inside out.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 7:11 pm 
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Been digging around the net. I think you found good 60% or better moly paste. Good stuff


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 7:33 pm 
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Joolz wrote:
Below is a pic of the stuff I got. Surprise by how big it is, that's enough grease there to last a lifetime. However is this even the right stuff? Couldn't find anything printed on it where it says it's 60% moly. Haven't opened the tube yet but it feels really creamy, about the same consistency as a hand lotion. Now I'm wondering if this isn't the paste I was led to believe I was getting. Clerk at the store couldn't get confirmation if this is indeed the 60 or so percent moly stuff.
Anyone tried this yet that can confirm?


This is the Honda Moly you need.They have packed it in these containers for decades and they still do.....Notice it says 60% moly on it...Moly 77 has a lanolin base commonly used in rust protection products and lanolin is derived from the fat present on sheep wool. Moly 60 has a hydrocarbon base....whether a lanolin base product is good for springer internals is anyone's guess ....so I stick with what the pros use in airguns.

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:44 pm 
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Heh, and that right there (re. moly grease) is exactly what I'm talking about.

Well, I'm leaving it at that. What I have will simply have to do. This is taking way too much of my time and I haven't even taken the gun apart yet. Suppose that since the moly 77 in 75g containers is the stuff that most seem to be buying, if there was an issue hopefully it'd have come to light by now. Besides, even if Honda was to exchange it for the bigger tube, I wouldn't want to know how much that'd cost. Worse still I spent 30 min on the phone with the company that supplies data sheets for the manufacturer (some megacorp that won't even deal with that) and they emailed a rather useless data sheet that contains no usable info, not even what the percentage of moly is.

Hillbilly, I get what you're saying about the main tube. Basically just shine it with the moly, not leaving any visible coating. K, I'm sure I can improvise something I can attach to my variable speed drill. But what about the spring that glides inside the tube (main spring I guess it's called)? Do you not put moly on it? If you do put some, how much? Or do you just wipe moly onto it to a shine (as in, not leaving any visible paste behind).

For a forum of this size and longevity, I'm surprised there isn't a sticky with a DIY lube job on a springer. Sure would have made things a lot easier for me and for all those with a springer that either don't know what to do or are intimidated at the prospect. Maybe this is something that an experienced member with a bit of spare time and a camera could consider doing? Or course, it'd only work if the mods would agree to make it into a sticky in the Mods and Repair section. Otherwise it'd be pointless as searching even this forum brings up endless amounts of information. Just an idea to spare the next guy all the headache and time.

PS: Tom Gaylord's opinions on how to lube a springer greatly varies from BB Pelletier which equally deviates from the take of Charlie da Tuna. It's almost as though they follow one another to ensure their views contradict one another. Perhaps in pursue of net supremacy? Whoever tells me "google is your best friend" will be shot.

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:58 pm 
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Joolz wrote:
Heh, and that right there (re. moly grease) is exactly what I'm talking about.

Well, I'm leaving it at that. What I have will simply have to do. This is taking way too much of my time and I haven't even taken the gun apart yet. Suppose that since the moly 77 in 75g containers is the stuff that most seem to be buying, if there was an issue hopefully it'd have come to light by now. Besides, even if Honda was to exchange it for the bigger tube, I wouldn't want to know how much that'd cost. Worse still I spent 30 min on the phone with the company that supplies data sheets for the manufacturer (some megacorp that won't even deal with that) and they emailed a rather useless data sheet that contains no usable info, not even what the percentage of moly is.

Hillbilly, I get what you're saying about the main tube. Basically just shine it with the moly, not leaving any visible coating. K, I'm sure I can improvise something I can attach to my variable speed drill. But what about the spring that glides inside the tube (main spring I guess it's called)? Do you not put moly on it? If you do put some, how much? Or do you just wipe moly onto it to a shine (as in, not leaving any visible paste behind).

For a forum of this size and longevity, I'm surprised there isn't a sticky with a DIY lube job on a springer. Sure would have made things a lot easier for me and for all those with a springer that either don't know what to do or are intimidated at the prospect. Maybe this is something that an experienced member with a bit of spare time and a camera could consider doing? Or course, it'd only work if the mods would agree to make it into a sticky in the Mods and Repair section. Otherwise it'd be pointless as searching even this forum brings up endless amounts of information. Just an idea to spare the next guy all the headache and time.

PS: Tom Gaylord's opinions on how to lube a springer greatly varies from BB Pelletier which equally deviates from the take of Charlie da Tuna. It's almost as though they follow one another to ensure their views contradict one another. Perhaps in pursue of net supremacy? Whoever tells me "google is your best friend" will be shot.


OK...it will interesting to see how moly 77 performs in that kind of environment(air gun internals)..thanks for offering up your gun for experimentation....let us know the results.... :D

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:03 pm 
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Joolz wrote:
PS: Tom Gaylord's opinions on how to lube a springer greatly varies from BB Pelletier which equally deviates from the take of Charlie da Tuna. It's almost as though they follow one another to ensure their views contradict one another. Perhaps in pursue of net supremacy? Whoever tells me "google is your best friend" will be shot.

Tom Gaylord and B.B. Pelletier are the same person, Google est votre meilleur ami.

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 2:34 am 
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PGAir wrote:
Joolz wrote:
I'm skeptical of the self-proclaimed experts such as the guy that uses the pseudo "charlie da tuna" that says not use anything but a 65% poly content while offering no explanation as to why - instead saying to stay away from cheap stuff from places like Wally World [...]

I would tend to trust Bob Werner (RIP) more than any "self proclaimed" experts of the CAF!


Let's hope you don't require too much advice in the future, cuz all of the wannabes on the forum today may just (NOT) have the answers you're looking for. Cheers.


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 5:22 am 
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Gee hope that was not directed a me. Certainly not claiming any expert title here. Just trying to help with my own experience as a mechanic. I am sure there are serious tuners here but none seem available right now.
I would just wipe the spring down. There should be enough moly on the cylinder wall to lubricate its travel.

Thanks my Crosman , could not fined that grease info anywhere.


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 6:49 am 
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Hillbilly wrote:
Gee hope that was not directed a me. Certainly not claiming any expert title here. Just trying to help with my own experience as a mechanic. I am sure there are serious tuners here but none seem available right now.
I would just wipe the spring down. There should be enough moly on the cylinder wall to lubricate its travel.

Thanks my Crosman , could not fined that grease info anywhere.


I wouldn't worry too much of a critics opinion......you may well be right regarding moly 77...I guess I just prefer the tried and true....hopefully moly 77 is ALSO suitable where adiabatic heating is present...as in airguns.

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 11:13 am 
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Mycrosman, appreciate you pointing out some of the composition in the moly I got. If it indeed has animal fat in it, it has me worried that it could ignite to the point of causing detonation. Heh, just when I thought I had for once gotten the right stuff.

Rick, can you show us what your moly looks like? Is it by any chance the Honda one?
Haven't opened the tube yet, suppose I can always return it or exchange for the other one, if they have it available there. Mycrosman, how much did you pay for yours?

And Hillbilly: thanks for the clarification on lubing the spring. I gather that there will no visible moly left anywhere? You're pretty much just "shining" the metal with the stuff, leaving nothing left. As in, if you were to scratch it with your fingernails, nothing would be picked up, correct? Again, just trying to get a mental picture of how it should work. Other info I've seen on the net shows the big name experts applying it with a brush. Thus the frustration in trying to get the proper info, as it varies from person to person.

Ed500, not trying to knock the expert advice, certainly from the experienced members here, who I trust. It is the galore of those trying to make a name for themselves that I'm reluctant to follow. Their advice are all over the place and often contradictory. At least the members here have done it/tried it/learned from it. Although it would seem that most have chosen to read this thread and opted to ignore my request for help.

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 11:36 am 
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I used Air Venturi Moly metal to metal paste on my Benjamin pump when I changed o-rings. Supposed to be specially made for anything airgun.


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