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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 12:31 pm 
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Joolz wrote:
Mycrosman, appreciate you pointing out some of the composition in the moly I got. If it indeed has animal fat in it, it has me worried that it could ignite to the point of causing detonation. Heh, just when I thought I had for once gotten the right stuff.

Rick, can you show us what your moly looks like? Is it by any chance the Honda one?
Haven't opened the tube yet, suppose I can always return it or exchange for the other one, if they have it available there. Mycrosman, how much did you pay for yours?

And Hillbilly: thanks for the clarification on lubing the spring. I gather that there will no visible moly left anywhere? You're pretty much just "shining" the metal with the stuff, leaving nothing left. As in, if you were to scratch it with your fingernails, nothing would be picked up, correct? Again, just trying to get a mental picture of how it should work. Other info I've seen on the net shows the big name experts applying it with a brush. Thus the frustration in trying to get the proper info, as it varies from person to person.

Ed500, not trying to knock the expert advice, certainly from the experienced members here, who I trust. It is the galore of those trying to make a name for themselves that I'm reluctant to follow. Their advice are all over the place and often contradictory. At least the members here have done it/tried it/learned from it. Although it would seem that most have chosen to read this thread and opted to ignore my request for help.


Tony m73 may have the best advice for you really....at least you have the backing of pyramid air that its the right product for you.http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Ventu ... _1_oz/3498

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 2:16 pm 
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I use Dow Corning Molykote G-n Metal Assembly Paste to lubricate my airguns. Yes, it is messy and can easily stain your clothes.
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I'm not sure where you can buy it. I order mine through my work.
Also I don't know the percentage of moly in it this lubricating paste.
It doesn't say on the package.


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 3:19 pm 
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Apparently Honda Moly 60 has been discontinued. I saw this mentioned in a couple of paces. Here's one: http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php ... SCONTINUED

The correct part number for the real Honda Moly 60 is 08734-0001. If I didn't already have some I'd seriously look around to see if I could find some still in stock somewhere. Be aware I also read of suppliers substituting the Moly 77 for Moly 60 when ordered.

Lon

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 3:26 pm 
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Here's my old school stuff. I did some machining for a friend and he gave me the 8 oz. tub. He said he lubed several springers with it. I couldn't tell that any had been used. The label on the back says it contains 65% Moly. The little tub beside it is what I was going to send to you.
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 3:51 pm 
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Joolz.....I think it must be clear to you...and myself actually.....that there is more than just ONE quality moly you can use....whether its loctite...Honda 60...Molykote....or Venturi.....As for Moly 77... the jury is still out...it has a different composition than the others....Nor have I seen it mentioned for air gun use but all the others ARE being used ....in high end guns I might add.Pick one....you'll be fine.Happy tuning. :D

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 4:55 pm 
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lleader wrote:
Apparently Honda Moly 60 has been discontinued. I saw this mentioned in a couple of paces. Here's one: http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php ... SCONTINUED

The correct part number for the real Honda Moly 60 is 08734-0001. If I didn't already have some I'd seriously look around to see if I could find some still in stock somewhere. Be aware I also read of suppliers substituting the Moly 77 for Moly 60 when ordered.

Lon


Yes...you are quite correct...moly 77 is meant as a replacement for moly 60 for MOST applications.Its effectiveness in springers/rams is not yet known.Also my friend at Honda says you must ask for Moly 60 as Moly 77 is sent with mail orders unless otherwise specified.If you order Moly you will get it....Moly 77.Apparently there is still a good stock of 60 but you have to be specific.

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 6:11 pm 
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Thank you all for chiming in. I had no idea the stuff I got from Honda wasn't what we all had in mind. And Vagrant, don't feel bad for posting that link, as you can see things have changed and you had no way of knowing.
I'm very hesitant to try it out, don't feel like being the guinea in this experiment. Like you said, it contains animal fat. Well, guess what: animal fat IS a combustible.

Even before I saw Rick's post I had already made my mind that I was going to return the stuff back to Honda. It truly doesn't feel like the real deal. Looking at what Rick has in the small container I can tell that it has the consistency of a paste, while what I have is about as thick as a dollar store hand lotion. Haven't opened it yet but squeezing the plastic container offers virtually no resistance. This definitely does not qualify as a paste.

Rick, given all the headache I have already gone through just to get what I thought was the proper lubricant, I will gladly accept your offer. Thanks very much. Coming from you even if this was peanut butter with some moly in it I'd still use it, seeing how you have had success with it and you have never led me astray. Once your moly arrives I'll take a pic of the Gamo's internals so that you can give me a rundown of how much I should put it and where, as this is still very much obscure to me. But hey, if I can get my springers to shoot as well as yours, I may actually start shooting them.

Will pm you my address in a bit, also insist on paying for the shipping.
PS: really itching to shoot that lovely(?) Gamo but I'm sure a few more days won't kill me. Thanks for finally putting an end to this ONE lubricant. Have to still hunt down a couple more but first will see if the Gamo has leather or synthetic seals.

Edit: and a big thanks to mycrosman for pointing this out. May have saved me from getting an explosion to the face. Memories of Breaking Bad come to mind.

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 6:55 pm 
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For anyone with interest, posting the MSDS that I was sent. Yes, it did take about half an hour on the phone with them as even they were having trouble figuring out the product I was referring to, which may be further proof that things were (quietly?) changed. Still not clear if this is for M60 or M77 as no one on the other end could confirm it, although the numbers appear to match what Vagrant posted in the Amazon page. I was mostly interested in knowing the moly percentage, which isn't even listed in the MSDS. Megacorps...


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 5:22 am 
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Edmonton<500 wrote:
PGAir wrote:
Joolz wrote:
I'm skeptical of the self-proclaimed experts such as the guy that uses the pseudo "charlie da tuna" that says not use anything but a 65% poly content while offering no explanation as to why - instead saying to stay away from cheap stuff from places like Wally World [...]

I would tend to trust Bob Werner (RIP) more than any "self proclaimed" experts of the CAF!


Let's hope you don't require too much advice in the future, cuz all of the wannabes on the forum today may just (NOT) have the answers you're looking for. Cheers.

Typical inversion of the roles. They're smart enough to figure out what I wanted to say.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 4:43 pm 
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I sorta skimmed this thread but seems you want to know about moly and tar?
Tar is not meant to be a lube but it is, it's just so thick that the best descriptive word is tar. It's real purpose in the gun is to dampen spring twang, that's it. Being thick it'll cost you some power, how much depends on the gun, how much you use and how you prepped the gun for its use. Don't buy the clear tar, which is no doubt silicone, get the black stuff. That is if you want to use tar, there are other ways to quiet the spring that don't cost you power but are more work or expensive.
Moly is a dry powdered lube, moly paste is dry moly mixed with an unknown paste something. My question is what is that paste part?? Moly grease is no doubt regular bearing grease with some moly in it, but moly is expensive so you're not going to get much. Moly paste is rather thick, which is why it's called paste and not grease, and like tar it can cost you power. I prefer to mix my own lubes, but instead of moly I use Tungsten Disulfide (hereafter referred to as dry lube) which is a little better, but what's really important imo is when you have it in powder form it's much more versatile. I can coat parts with pure dry lube, then over that I can use an appropriate mix of wet lube mixed with dry. Say I want chamber lube, I can mix 0tw syn motor oil with dry at whatever % I want. Or for piston lube I can use bearing grease, or even a grease/oil/dry mix to get what I want. If you already have moly paste you can mix it with grease or oil to thin it out, but you'll never have the advantage of dry lubing the part directly. Is moly or tungsten needed? No, it's a bonus. Some guns need it more than others, but I suppose if you want max power you should use the thinnest oil and dry will help provide lube that thin oil lacks. Do not use silicone inside the gun, such as the piston, spring, pivot points etc. It is the polar opposite of the best lube. If anyone insists on using it for the chamber then be sure the rest of gun is properly lubed. You can also dry lube the bore, and just about everything else you own that needs lube. Own a car, mower, ATV, chainsaw, locks, hinges, garage opener, etc etc... Dry lube is awesome stuff. http://tinyurl.com/TungstenWS2 There are other sources but this one is cheap and reliable.
So get the better tungsten and make your own lubes however you want, problem solved. And one oz can do a ton of guns and other stuff, but if you choose to add it to engine oil you'll go thru a lot more.


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 5:02 pm 
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I have been using this for a long time both on the spring and for chamber lube, found it in my garage, no idea how much moly is in there but I get very little sometimes zero dieseling after a rebuild.


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:59 pm 
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Chevota wrote:
I sorta skimmed this thread but seems you want to know about moly and tar?

Hi Chevota, was hoping to hear from you. Thanks for adding your 2 cents. After seeing your many posts on your experience with springers and your ability to tame them beasts, your advice is most welcomed.

To clarify, I know very little about springers, I hardly even shoot them as I prefer pneumatics (hope I haven't lost you there). But I have about half a dozen of them now, a couple being brand new and not even broken in yet, some older, some really old, like this Gamo in the first page of this thread - and what has prompted me to roll up my sleeves and give it a tune/lube job. But as indicated above, experience is none with these, which is why I started this thread in hopes of getting as much info beforehand as possible.

And I do listen. For instance, I run the very next day to get that moly grease that I thought was the proper stuff, just to find out it's not even close to what I needed. And now you're proposing something even better. Again, glad I started this thread and hope others can pick up a few pointers from it. Rick has offered to send me some of the moly paste he has but I'll ask him to hold off for now as there's a store in town that specializes in oils and lubricants. Will call them on Tuesday to see if they have the dry tungsten you mentioned (long weekend holiday here). I like your suggestion since it won't cost any speed, as there will be nothing to slow the spring down. But that would present another problem: twang, seeing how the spring wouldn't have something to cushion its violent action. You don't like to use tar, and I can see why, as it would cause speed drop, the very thing I'd like to avoid, as all of these guns are sub 500fps. But what would you suggest I'd do to prevent twang, if I was to locate the tungsten powder and lubed the spring and other parts with it? Ideally I'd like to open up and tune/lube all of my springers, so hopefully there's a solution that won't be cost prohibitive, or equally as important, not too time consuming.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 1:14 am 
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That moly paste is not a bad thing, just not what I'd use. If you want you can use it on the spring to help dampen it, but not sure how much it'll help because it won't stay on like tar will. The alternate to tar is to make a plastic liner for the piston so the spring is a better fit and there's no metal contact against the piston. See pix which is of a Diana 350, but the same principle for all coil guns.
I have more pix of that and of other things to do including details on lube. It's all in a tuning package that I can email to you if you want, chevota at hotmail


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:20 am 
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on but off topic at the same time but something i over looked years ago when i started playing with the moly and experimenting... moly is a suspected human carcinogen and for that reason i ALWAYS wear gloves not to mention it is a pain in the arse to try to wash off skin... up until recently ive been using a mix of honda 60 moly mixed with beeman metal-2-metal moly paste and for the more difficult and noisy springers i use Maccari spring tar to dampen the twang/vibration and sacrifice a bit of power although id like to see a comparison between the 2 just to see how much power is lost... Chevota made a good point with the liner aswell, on a few of my former tuned rifles i used one of those flimsy "teflon" cutting board/mats from the buck store cut to fit inside the piston which seemed to help dampen the vibration a bit too! oh the fun of experimenting and tuning :twisted: gota love the thwack from a well tuned rifle as opposed to the angry killer bee sound of a spring doing its thing lol

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 6:52 am 
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At the risk of hijacking this thread....
Here's my understanding the principles of lubrication, please correct me if I've got it wrong.

For the trigger group you should use a light grease. Silicone oil, used sparingly, should be used within the compression chamber and perhaps on the breech seal. A light oil should be used on hinges and other moving parts.
I thought moly grease should be used on the spring.
What is this "tar" you speak of? Is it a grease? When I think of "tar" I think of the stuff to pave roads not lube an airgun.


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