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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:45 am 
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Location: Brant County
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The JM Velocity Tar I have is just that, looks like tar (thick and black) but doesnt smell like it...

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 11:46 am 
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Email sent, thanks Chevota. Makes sense to have something like simple plastics for the spring to make contact with, rather than the walls of the tube. Will definitely give it a try. Don't like the idea of using tar, fear it could melt if only slightly and vapours of it make its way past the seal and into the compression chamber. Recipe for a nice, loud detonation. Not to mention all my springers are already badly underpowered, can't afford to lose any more fps. At the same time I hate a gun with a bad recoil, such as the still brand new and unbroken-in Air Hawk. Despite it being a massive and heavy 44" gun, the recoil in it is unpleasant. Seems like an unfair thing to put up with on a gun that only fires at the rated 495fps. May change the spring in the future but for now would be content to experiment with what's in it already to see if I can successfully tame it.

H2P good to know about wearing gloves when handling moly. Think the tungsten comes in both a paste and in a spray can. Will see which if any is available locally tomorrow when the store opens. If the spray works it sounds like it'd be a lot simpler. Although I read that to properly apply tungsten one should use an air tool and blow it into the metal at 120 psi. Not sure if that is correct. Hope this isn't the case. Not something I'd be too keen on trying.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 6:58 pm 
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That piston liner is kind of a pita so the first one might not work. Once you get one done I think you'll have the hang of it. Ideally you want it to be a press fit which both makes it tight and keeps it perfectly round. Whatever plastic you find won't be the perfect thickness, but anything is way better than what it was. If you have a smaller Canadian spring then you might have room for two layers of 2-liter bottle, but you can always make a shim liner out of something, maybe a long beer can? Basically like that pix of the oem 350's steel liner, then put your tight fit plastic layer in that. I've made them with just one 2-liter bottle which leaves up to .030" clearance and it works great, so no worries getting it perfect, but if you have time I'd try to make that closer to .010.
I'd also sand the OD of the spring smooth so it can't scratch up the liner and skims over it easily.
The guide should explain everything well enough but I always forget stuff. If you have Q's feel free to ask.
I suppose you could goop the moly paste on the spring guide since that will be the main source of noise after the liner is in, and since that's the less dramatic end I think the moly will stay, or at least stay longer and it should not affect power enough to notice.
The main reason things like paste and sticky grease, sticky silicone etc affect power is because when it's in the compression tube the seal and piston have to plow thru it, plus a section of the piston skirt is no doubt dragging thru it too. The spring is struggling to get the piston going as fast as possible to make max pressure, and already falling short, but now think about all that surface area covered in grease. Picture wiping a squeegee firmly across a greased surface 3" wide x 4" long. Slow no prob, but as fast as possible and it's an issue. The thickness and especially stickiness of the lube and its temp make a difference.... This is why you hear about cold weather costing you power. So do it right and power should max out and cold should have little effect.
Tar will likely never make it to the compression chamber, but no worries of detonation if it did since it would so little. The real worry would be having it on the tube wall to slow the piston. Tar generally stays put because it's so sticky, picture sticky like honey but much thicker than peanut butter. You only put it on the spring so it should never get on the comp tube, but it is on the spring and the spring slides past the guide and inside the piston so that's where you get the power loss. If carefully placed and the other parts are dry lubed then coated with a very thin coat of motor oil or grease then it should allow the tar to slip past w/o sticking. This is another cool thing about the liner since it's easy to dry lube, then oiled it's pretty much tar repellent. The main reason I dislike tar is it's so messy and if you ever take the gun apart again it's an ugly mess to get off. It's not like you can wash it off with soap and water. As far as I know it is a type of grease, not tar like road tar. It may look and act like tar, but upon closer inspection and smell it clearly isn't and smells like grease. No fumes either. If I were to rate its stickiness, with 0wt motor oil being a 1, sticky grease a 2, then tar is a 5.
If you do the plastic liner you should be pretty happy about how much it quiets it, but options to make it even quieter include a tighter fitting liner, the silicone plug, thick grease or paste on the guide and spring, and as a last resort; tar.
If you use tar you need to strip the spring squeaky clean so it can stick to it, if it's oily then the tar might sling off. And don't get it on anything you don't want it on, like clothing, carpet etc, because your options for complete removal are pretty much nil. The clear tar is a bad idea because it's silicone, but also because you can't see it and end up spreading it around the house.
The tungsten should be in powder form, and rub it directly into the metal or whatever. Details are in the guide I sent. If you get spray then how do you mix it with oil/grease? If paste then what is the paste part and what if you need it thinned way down like oil for the comp chamber or pivot points? Powder is cheapest and the way to go. I have air brushed moly on auto parts, but that was for a much thicker layer and I assume it had something in it to hold it together. If you were to air brush/blast tungsten powder you'd no doubt lose the vast majority of it and still not do a better job than rubbing it in by hand. Picture rubbing pencil lead into paper until it's a shiny dark grey, that's what a tungsten'd part looks like. Ultra thin layer but amazing. You could use pencil lead too I suppose, I have a pound of graphite powder that I use for less important things. And a pound of motor mica for virtually mess free dry lubing.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:19 am 
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Hey Joolz.

Your grease is on its way Express Post. Tracking # in your pm.
No need to reimburse for shipping.
Consider it a random act of kindness. Pass it on.

Rick.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:44 pm 
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Got the PM, another sent back. Thanks so much Rick. As mentioned, just glad that after several days and so many hours trying to secure the ONE lube it's finally been resolved.
And as per your request, I shall pay it forward. So forum listen up, I'm in your debt, courtesy of Rickman.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:12 am 
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And Chevota, received your email with the guide you wrote. Wow plenty of detailed info there and the very important pics to go with. Haven't yet had the chance to read it all but will do so prior to taking the first rifle apart. As indicated earlier want to have all the tools, material and instructions at hand before bringing a screw driver to the Gamo. Thanks to Rick the moly is on its way, that alone is a huge thing given all the headache associated with trying to secure this one lube. May look at getting some 0 weight oil to mix with a bit of the moly for lubing the hinges, etc. All I have that's detergent free is 40 weight, which I assume would be too thick?

Glad you clarified the deal with tar. I'm definitely staying away. Like you said, if in the future I decided to clean it, it would be an absolute nightmare. I don't have a shop to work in, so any mishaps could mean tar on the carpet, keyboard or any other sensitive thing that we don't want to have a black coating on. With that in mind I'm definitely willing to experiment with the plastic liner. Like you said, may have to gauge how much room I have in there to figure what will work the best. Have good hand dexterity which seems to be a requirement for such precise, finicky work. But knowing that this alone would help getting some reprieve from the twang that most of my springers have, that is all the incentive I need to proceed. And the added bonus being no loss of fps.

Getting excited about diving in. Only shame is not having a chrony to do a before and after comparison. But I'm sure I'll be able to gauge any changes in the twang, which to me is the key thing.

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