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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:12 am
Posts: 1034
Location: Hamilton
Thinking of buying a HW40 while still available in .22cal, but I'm so impressed with My New P17,
I'd like to know from some who's experienced with Both, are the guns Exactly the same, side by side
and Internally? Just one Chinese the other German (maybe?). Hate to put out $250,
when I could perhaps save $150 by just buying another P17 and replacing the barrel?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1233
Location: United States
I've never had a 40 in my hands, but those who have told me it's hard to tell them apart, unlike other chinese clones.
So I decided to stick with the P17 since it works so well. Plus one beauty of cheap guns is they're disposable. I love nice guns but I hate carrying them out of fear of damage or confiscation.
I have two now, the second one I've been contemplating what to do with it, like suppressor, longer barrel, 22 or? It seems to me you could either get a 22 barrel from another gun and stick it in there after some mods, or just buy the 40 barrel in 22. If you price the 40 barrel let me know how much...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:13 pm 
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Location: Hamilton
Chevota wrote:
I've never had a 40 in my hands, but those who have told me it's hard to tell them apart, unlike other chinese clones.
So I decided to stick with the P17 since it works so well. Plus one beauty of cheap guns is they're disposable. I love nice guns but I hate carrying them out of fear of damage or confiscation.
I have two now, the second one I've been contemplating what to do with it, like suppressor, longer barrel, 22 or? It seems to me you could either get a 22 barrel from another gun and stick it in there after some mods, or just buy the 40 barrel in 22. If you price the 40 barrel let me know how much...


Thanks! I wonder if a HW45 .22 barrel fits, I think they would be easier to come by, I wonder how much loss in Muzzle Velocity there would be going from .177 to a .22 barrel, might be disappointing?

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A Whole Bunch of Handguns!
C02, SPRINGER, Pneumatic, Most new, some Vintage, a few Airsoft?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:41 pm
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Location: GTA
There are some differences. The fit and finish is slightly better on the HW40. For example the plastic on the P17 has rough edges -like casting marks-, the HW40 does not. The HW40 appears to use better metal, but my Marksman 2004 is still shooting after all these years, new seals shortly after I got it and it has been fine since.
The biggest difference I find is the trigger, the HW40 has a slightly nicer trigger.
I find it hard to notice the differences, you have to look for them. That said, I would say the HW40 is a nicer gun, but I shoot my Chinese models more.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:06 pm
Posts: 162
Location: Yukon
Quote:
Thanks! I wonder if a HW45 .22 barrel fits, I think they would be easier to come by, I wonder how much loss in Muzzle Velocity there would be going from .177 to a .22 barrel, might be disappointing?


This is what I did, works great.. still waiting to chrony..
https://www.specialtyshootingsportsoutd ... oduct_info


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1233
Location: United States
I don't know if the 45 barrel would drop in, but the P3 will so no point in risking it.
Hard to guess velocity but my guess is:
11.9 RWS @ 350
14.3 JSB @ 320

offroad: looking fwd to crony results...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:12 am
Posts: 1034
Location: Hamilton
Thanks All you Guys!
Decided to go the barrel route. I've had a chance to try out My New P17, and was blown away, this gun
is fantastic, it will give my Alecto's a run for the money, maybe even the HW75 too!
I don't know why I held off so long, always heard "if it's too good to be true, it ain't true", but the P17 though I obviously can't vouch for it's dependability, seems an exception to the rule.
I think Anyone who Shoots airguns should have this gun, should be their first gun! C02 shooters as well!
Anyhow I ordered a .22cal HW40 (P3) barrel, luckily the last one they had! Thanks to offroad720.
Placing an order for another P17, this should be fun!

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A Whole Bunch of Handguns!
C02, SPRINGER, Pneumatic, Most new, some Vintage, a few Airsoft?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1233
Location: United States
I held off for years because generally you get what you pay for and I almost always get burned when buying something cheap like that. For example the break barrel Ruger pistol (gag). I think that $ for $ the P17 is the best airgun value period. You just gotta have one!
Check out the Mods and Repair section for some info and tips on dealing with any issues you may have. I just posted some pix there, but there are several threads the past couple years on this gun. No matter what issue you have there's an easy fix. Hopefully I didn't jinx us by saying that...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:06 pm
Posts: 162
Location: Yukon
I have such a busy summer :cry: not sure when I can get home (and then have time) to chrony, new chrony inbound too :D .. if anyone beats me to the punch I'd love to compare results. currently I am using RWS Hobby and for about 10 yards they are keeping me and a few friends happy.
btw, Rhonda down at SSSO is awesome to deal with


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:28 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:21 am
Posts: 51
Location: San Diego, CA
Hi ejackyou. I'll bet you're always late.

Answer: The Beeman P17, Beeman P3 and the Weihrauch HW 40 are exactly the same gun - with very minor cosmetic differences.
I have had the chance to play with all three here in the states. I've taken the grips off all three. I've chronied all three. I've weighed all three. They are identical. So there must be some difference since the HW40 and the P3 are around $250 and the P17 is $35, you're thinking. Yes, the first two are made in Germany, the P17 is made in China. That's it? That is it. And after figuring that out I bought two P17's and will probably buy several more. They make great gifts for toddlers. Kidding.

The weight of all three is the same - a tad under 28oz. The velocity is the same - assuming you use the same pellets. With RWS Diabolo Basic Wadcutters, 415 fps, which exceeds specs. The triggers appear to be the same, they are minimally adjustable via a 2mm Allen wrench and they all break pretty cleanly at about 22oz.

Now for the bad stuff. Be aware that that these are over lever SSP's that require a gargantuan cocking effort. It's close to 30lbs. Don't buy any of them for your 10-year-old. It ain't gonna work. In comparison my hefty over lever Cometa Indian requires no more than seven pounds of effort to cock it.

You may have read many posts on other airgun sites complaining that the P17's are unreliable. They blow seals after a few hundred shots. Look at the dates on these posts - seven, eight, nine years old. As far as I can tell from my experience the problems have been resolved are were due mainly due to a hole in the piston that hadn't been deburred and as the gun was cocked it would eventually tear the seal - usually at about 100 shots.

A tip for greater accuracy. The barrel is housed inside the top of the pistol - the cocking lever. It is held in place at the business end with a 1" metal strap secured by two large Philips screws. Except that at least on the P17 they are not secure. They are loose. Tighten them as much as you dare.

The P17 is accurate, a joy to use and fires with a satisfying 'crack' and no recoil. It is not pellet picky and it is also extremely tweakable. You can put longer barrels than the 6.69" one it comes with. It looks pretty impressive with a 10" barrel. But why not pimp it with a 14". Gatewaytoairguns has a massive thread on all the delightful things people have done to theirs. Yes, you can put a .22 barrel in this .177. The Crosman replacements work. And how about a Walther Lothar barrel. Instantly turn your $35 bargain into a super accurate piece that now costs as more than the Weihrauch it emulates. But you'll freak people out completely when you enter a competition with it. And just for that it's worth it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:53 am
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Location: Montreal
I was on vacation in the US and when I saw the P17 at less than 40$, I tought I would give it a try, knowing about the Chinese heritage, I figured it was worth a try.
So I bought one... it didn't last 2 days! I still had a few days to go so I went back to Cabelas and echange it instead of getting the refund. I'm still shooting it! Never had to do any work on it.

I think the chances of getting a P17 lemon are far greater than getting a lemon HW40. Is it worth the price difference? If you have the money to spare, go for the HW40. If you like tinkering go with a few P17. If you're like me just get the P17 and if you ever have a problem try fixing it or just get a new one, at 40$, it's well worth the risk!

Everyone should own one of these, it's a classic, you can't say you're an airgunner and not own one of these (or a 2240). The pistol is probably more accurate than most of us are. I don't think you can get more accuracy for the money.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:12 pm
Posts: 2368
Location: Woodstock
I have the HW, P17 and and the Marksman.

I shoot the HW the most and *never* operated on her once. Never even did the usual tear-down, deburr, polish and relube. Still shoots like day one. I also find it's more accurate, but then again I fire it most and open/change it less, so it would have to be.

The clones have all needed simple work, but for the cost you can't complain. If you are a little handy, you can save money with the clones.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:21 am
Posts: 51
Location: San Diego, CA
Don't know how old your P17's are, but I am told that if they were purchased in the last couple of months the factory has addressed the problems and the chance of a lemon is less likely. But at 1/7th the price of a P3 or HW40 why would you not buy two or three and mess around with them. Fire the hell out of them and if they fail they are still under warranty. And do check out the remarkable heavy P17 mod site here. Simply wonderful.

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/ind ... ic=49115.0


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:22 pm
Posts: 323
Location: Vancouver
Awesome!
I have a .22 barrel pulled from a P1322 that I would love to mod into a P17. Is the only work needed on this to machine away a little bit of the metal around the area where the barrel is clamped down?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:06 pm
Posts: 162
Location: Yukon
Chevota wrote:
I don't know if the 45 barrel would drop in, but the P3 will so no point in risking it.
Hard to guess velocity but my guess is:
11.9 RWS @ 350
14.3 JSB @ 320

offroad: looking fwd to crony results...


OK, here are the results of the P17 w/ a .22 HW40/P3 barrel. Little lower than expected but I am guessing there should/could be room for improvement with all the talked about mods for this gun. Only put about 500 - 700 shots thru this and have not done anything to it other than the barrel swap.

Hobby @ 11.9 grain
307, 314, 306, 309, 309 = AVG 309 FPS = 2.5 ft/lbs

CP Ultra Mag @ 14.3 grain
251, 270, 263, 263, 227, 276(tried a 6 string average for the low 5th shot) = AVG 258 FPS = 2.1 ft/lbs

Enjoy


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