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 Post subject: IZH-61 Arrived
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:57 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:47 am
Posts: 711
Location: Bradford
This is not a review (yet), just first impressions.

I ordered one of these from Baikal last weekend. It arrived today. Shipping was fairly quick, 4 business days. Canada post.

Not much change from 200 bucks once all said and done.

Image

Came loose in box, stock removed, wrapped in the usual Baikal oiled wax paper.

Box contained:
-Rifle
-Cleaning rod
-Spare clip tied to rifle with string LoL
-Manual

Did NOT receive extra spring.

First Impressions: Way more plastic than I figured. Even the trigger is plastic, although to be fair, the majority of it should be called polymer I suppose :) They must be using a fairly new injection mold because the lines are VERY crisp and clean. No flashing anywhere.

It's growing on me though :) It IS different and pretty spiffy looking. I'd be willing to pay double for a metal receiver version....new, not xx years old before anyone PM's me :)

Open sights are quite nice. Plastic again, but irrelevant. Bug Buster going on when it arrives.

Very lightweight, under 5lbs for sure.

Manual fairly useless like most of them, with the exception of an exploded view which is all i need.

Put one round through it just for the Hell of it...let me tell you, I have a custom model 29 with a 3lb trigger pull (SA) and the Baikal is lighter.

The plastic receiver dovetail is BARELY 2.5" long. The mount I have coming is 1 5\8" center to center on the allen screws, so we'll see how it goes.

From my research, this thing is going to need some muzzle weight. couple ounces for sure. So I'm looking for a brake or compensator that will thread on directly, no adapters. Any ideas?

OK, so now the fluff is out of the way, I will take it shooting this weekend and post a review, probably with open sights since my scope isnt here yet. I will do my best, but my eyes arent quite what they used to be.

Cheers

_________________
When the 425-hp "street Hemi" version hit the street in 1965, it was akin to taking an M230 chain gun to an arcade shooting gallery
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: IZH-61 Arrived
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:36 am
Posts: 3
Location: Markham
Same here, I pick one up last week and same package as yours.
Only got to the point to "know" each parts and test shoot 2 pellet and accidental one dry. (Due to the pellet magazine should push all the way inside and auto move from right to left each shoot. I original thought move from left to right. I read the manual... as well as US/EU version didn't mentions about this.)
Recoil are quite notice (heavy) compare to Crosman backpacker and louder as well. (I'm a basement shooter.)
Thinking get a scope or keep it as is to learn the skill without any optic help. (But as a middle-age guy, I think eventually will get the scope.)
Thanks for shared your new arrived toy.


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 Post subject: Re: IZH-61 Arrived
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:46 am
Posts: 4183
bkoyip wrote:
Same here, I pick one up last week and same package as yours.
Only got to the point to "know" each parts and test shoot 2 pellet and accidental one dry. (Due to the pellet magazine should push all the way inside and auto move from right to left each shoot. I original thought move from left to right. I read the manual... as well as US/EU version didn't mentions about this.)
Recoil are quite notice (heavy) compare to Crosman backpacker and louder as well. (I'm a basement shooter.)
Thinking get a scope or keep it as is to learn the skill without any optic help. (But as a middle-age guy, I think eventually will get the scope.)
Thanks for shared your new arrived toy.


you cant compare a springer to a pneumatic, your always going to get some recoil from a springer even the best tuned ones,
as far as mussel noise level go's a springer is much quitter then a pneumatic what your hearing is the slap of the piston and recoil of the spring because your head is close to the stock, your not hearing the noise out the mussel end.

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 Post subject: Re: IZH-61 Arrived
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
Indeed, the muzzle noise from my son's 61 was rather minimal. But the initial recoil was quite surprising, considering the low power - about 450fps with 7.5gr wadcutters or 3.3fpe. I only fired it a couple of times before dismantling it as I'd intended to tune it properly anyway. What I found was that Baikal had assembled the power plant incorrectly. The spring guide was moving with the piston, adding a considerable weight of steel to the impact when the seal hit home. Turning it around and putting it in its proper static position at the back of the cylinder smoothed out the action a fair bit. Replacing it with a carefully made and fitted delrin guide helped a bit more. It could be that yours was correctly assembled, or not, you wouldn't know unless you dismantled it.

As for this stuff about the noise at the muzzle being less than the slap of the piston... whoever it was who started this myth deserves a good talking to. I have a sound pressure level meter, just a cheap one but one which has proven very consistent when metering noise levels of various airguns. It's been quite useful when trying to improve the efficiency of PCPs by various tuning adjustments - such as when I yesterday decided to shorten the SSG guide rod in my 2260 and change the clearance between its tip and the hammer. The metered SPL output before the changes was 5dB louder than after the changes. My chrony strings proved the sound meter to be correct; I increased the efficiency of the rifle from 1.56fpe/ci to 1.89fpe/ci according to Lloyd Sikes' calculator. My ear of course further confirmed it; far less air was being wasted per shot. Firing on an empty barrel resulted in a 13dB increase in sound pressure, so most of the energy is now being used behind the pellet.

Applying this meter to the MP-61 just now, I find that firing into a box of rags (not the cardboard, just hitting the bunched up cloth) there's a metered reading of between 99.2dB and 101.5dB. Touching the muzzle just lightly into the rags and firing gives me a range between 89dB and 92dB, depending on how careful I am about just barely touching the cloth. Pressing the muzzle firmly into the rags and firing gives a consistent reading of 85dB. Sound pressure is measured in decibels, and a 3 decibel (dB) increase is a doubling of the sound pressure. So the difference between muzzle blast and piston noise in the case of my son's 61 is approximately a quadruple one, the un-shielded muzzle blast being at least 4 times louder than the piston noise.

Testing again with my .22" Industry Brand QB57 (another springer) shooting RWS Hobby pellets at 635fps (10.66fpe), I get an open-muzzle SPL metering of 104dB, while pressing lightly into the rags it reads 96.2dB, an even more significant difference. And the QB57's piston slam is somewhat notoriously noisy. Why? Because of the way people shoot the QB57, namely with their cheeks pressed against the cylinder. The shooter's impression is of a very noisy piston. Shooters of this rifle often talk about the loud TWANG of the spring, and Chevota has devoted a fair bit of attention to helping people with damping that noise. For my part I converted it to a non-bullpup layout, going to a collapsible wire stock instead, which gets my right ear far away from the piston and spring so I don't have to suffer. It's actually very pleasant to shoot now. Especially so, since the modifications have put my ear another foot rearward of the muzzle, where MOST OF THE SOUND IS COMING OUT!

So yes, a spring-piston rifle's or pistol's action is going to be louder than the power plant of most PCPs (unless they're exceptionally poorly designed), but the muzzle noise, the blast of air escaping behind the pellet, is most certainly the loudest aspect of using these airguns. If you doubt my metered results, just try it yourself. Takes only two pellets and a box of rags to hear the rather dramatic difference.


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 Post subject: Re: IZH-61 Arrived
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:36 am
Posts: 3
Location: Markham
First - ITGUY, sorry to hijack your post here, only reply once and may open a new chat.

Ace - thank you to point out the spring vs pneumatic different. (Haha, I'm just a grade one student in airgun.) I will going to learn about this topic soon. Was ignore the technology inside and concentrate other factor like cost, accuracy... etc.

Gerard - I'm sure my airgun knowledge is way far behind yours. I can assemble/reassemble any PC without issue, but for the airgun, I know nothing about what's hide inside. Maybe one day when I know more and will mess it around. Thanks for your long post.

8)


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 Post subject: Re: IZH-61 Arrived
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:47 am
Posts: 711
Location: Bradford
Not at all GerardSamija, interesting reading and no need to open up a new thread on my account. Please continue to use this thread so I can find your posts.

I have had no time to **play yet but I did try another shot in to a blanket with an alloy pellet and I would bet money it dieseled. Very loud "crack". I know, my own fault for not cleaning it.

** got 2 Tanfoglio's, an Ekol, and a XS60C delivered recently and haven't even unboxed them yet. :( :(

_________________
When the 425-hp "street Hemi" version hit the street in 1965, it was akin to taking an M230 chain gun to an arcade shooting gallery
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: IZH-61 Arrived
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:47 am
Posts: 711
Location: Bradford
bkoyip wrote:
Same here, I pick one up last week and same package as yours.
Only got to the point to "know" each parts and test shoot 2 pellet and accidental one dry. (Due to the pellet magazine should push all the way inside and auto move from right to left each shoot. I original thought move from left to right. I read the manual... as well as US/EU version didn't mentions about this.)
Recoil are quite notice (heavy) compare to Crosman backpacker and louder as well. (I'm a basement shooter.)
Thinking get a scope or keep it as is to learn the skill without any optic help. (But as a middle-age guy, I think eventually will get the scope.)
Thanks for shared your new arrived toy.


Wait til i get my mount and scope so you can see a picture. The mount and Bug Buster scope should be here soon. I know putting $200.00 worth of scope and mount on a sub $200.00 rifle may be silly, but I need it.

As well, i saw the Pyramid video and did not like the mount they used so ordered a different one..give me chance to see if it works. If it does then you have at least 3 to choose from. I'm a little worried about the one i ordered..both allen screws should engage the dovetail based on measurements..but until I get it mounted i wont know for sure.

_________________
When the 425-hp "street Hemi" version hit the street in 1965, it was akin to taking an M230 chain gun to an arcade shooting gallery
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: IZH-61 Arrived
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
Scope quality is something I've come to appreciate more... as I've spent more on scopes. For a couple of years I've used a compact RWS-branded 4x scope, which is alright. That one lives on my ratting rig, the carbine-converted Brocock Atomic. The scope just happens to work fairly decently with a cobbled-together night vision scope... I also have a 'Simmons' (sub-brand of Bushnell) 4x, longer and slightly nicer to look through. That one's on my 2260, and it does alright.

But more recently I picked up a couple of low-end scopes from Burris and Leupold. I know their stuff only gets 'serious' up around $1,000, but I'm not quite ready to jump that far into optics yet. Though the view through my Burris 2-7x '.22lr' scope is gorgeous, I've settled on the Leupold VX-1 2-7x for my HFT rifle, as it's just giving me such striking clarity and the reticle is beautifully crisp. Spending over $300 on a scope for a QB78D may sound a bit silly. But the QB is shooting so accurately that I feel it deserves good glass up top.

For my son's MP-61 I wanted something with 6x magnification, as that would make him a bit more confident about seeing distant targets. It turned out the Leapers 6x was overkill for the 61 as it was showing him the bull, while holes from his pellets were hitting in a ring all around that... but on his newly set up 2240 carbine - another cheap airgun - it's just perfect. Sure it technically cost more than the 2240... but only if I don't factor in the HiPAC with extension ($120), Robert Lane regulator ($140), and all the work I've put into it (don't really want to think about how many hours that might have been). Adding in all that value a $130 Leapers scope with a $30 offset mount is sort of minimal glass.

A friend told me some time ago that one shouldn't consider spending less on a scope than half the value of the rifle. Now that I've looked through decent scopes, I almost feel the scope value ought to be similar to the value of the rifle. If nor more.


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 Post subject: Re: IZH-61 Arrived
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:47 am
Posts: 711
Location: Bradford
Finished

Image

Image

Image

Muzzle weight done by one of our excellent machinists on board, exactly as requested. No holes, no flutes. Threaded. around 7oz or so

Scope is Bug Buster rev 2 (thinner reticle).

Mount is an extended adapter with the important dimension of 1-5/8" between centers for the first and last screws. Notice how it fits the puny dovetail perfectly.

Rifle weighs in at about 7lbs now, balanced very well, just in front of hand grip.

Entire build was around $325.00 all in. Scope & Mount were direct from China. Scope was $62.00 & Mount was $12.00 Free shipping. Comes in exact box as you would get from a retail store here but with no markings and I'm certain the same factory. This is quite common in China...same factory, different colored doors at the back :) UTG all over the scope, etc etc. Crystal clear and works great. OK, well not Zeiss or Nikon crystal clear, but awful good for the money.

I'm still experimenting with pellets and this thing is the most hold sensitive I've ever seen. Very common to see 3 touching, then an inch away, 2 more touching. I'm using a bench, padded tripod up front and sandbag for butt with the old squeeze the sandbag trick for adjustment. Probably better if I go offhand but no time yet.

When I can shoot a decent group with it I'll post the pellet info.

_________________
When the 425-hp "street Hemi" version hit the street in 1965, it was akin to taking an M230 chain gun to an arcade shooting gallery
Peter


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