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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:44 pm 
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Location: United States
I think it would be sweet! I can't say about the price considering most of what you'd pay is quality and country of mfg, but I'd think there would be a market. I thought it was funny in the vid Gerard posted, about the lame excuse why they didn't choke it.
Three hole transfer port? And I didn't follow on the air acceleration system, whatever that is. Maybe if they showed it moving and/or pix of the actual parts. Based on the prototype I'd imagine the production model would be ~$1000, with a good chunk of that being the drool worthy stock.
I've wondered if they could make a gun that breaks/pumps/loads like a break barrel springer, but is pneumatic. Not realistic I spoze but would be nice.
A springer can be made to be very easy to cock and make reasonable power, if easy cocking is important. The shot cycle/recoil is greatly reduced as well but still violent compared to pneumatic which is probably the main selling point of the gun. I remember seeing one springer that had dual pistons to cancel each other out, more or less. Expensive of course, and apparently not cool enough to be popular but I love all the ideas people come up with.
Looking fwd to seeing your toy Joe...


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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:55 pm 
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Location: Vancouver
As just the core mechanism I suspect such a product might have a fair bit of appeal among all us tinkerers. Much as the 2240 provides such an amazing starting place for custom work, with many degrees of difficulty available for all tastes and abilities, an SSP powerplant and trigger to build around with whichever barrel and stock and optics would be a really welcome addition for custom builders. Can't see why it wouldn't be, as it takes away the need for a pump or tank to fill, no more CO2, no more clack-clack-clack-clack-clack etc like pumper. I could definitely go for this sort of kit. Again, how I'd value such a thing would vary quite a bit depending on build quality, but if it's something rock solid reliable with good potential for adaptation to the barrel and stock configuration of my choice, I can see paying $300 easily for the unit. More if it's really impressive.

Chevota; the acceleration system is just a stack of Belleville washers, the same sort as are used in regulators to adjust and maintain setpoint pressure. In this case they're compressed by the single stroke pumped pressure, then accelerating on firing to push through the last couple of millimetres of the chamber. The idea is to maintain higher pressure flow behind the pellet, not allowing that to drop nearly as quickly as with a static piston on a typical SSP. Combined with an efficient TP to maximize flow (hence the three ports it seems) and a high initial pressure I don't see how such a system could fail to provide more energy to the shot, compared to a simple SSP.


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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:03 pm 
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I understand the Webley Paradigm had a cocking force of 64 lbs.... not what I would call "easy"....

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:33 pm 
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Here's another rendition of the idea:

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/07/ ... le-dragon/

I applaud your endeavour. I think it's a great idea and targets a void in the airgun market that hasn't been adequately met. I would pay $800 - $1,000 for something like that. If selling the designs to a large airgun company doesn't work out, you could always make them to order in small batches I suppose. Serious airgunners would pay more for exclusivity and custom work.

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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:43 am 
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TriggerHappy416 wrote:
Here's another rendition of the idea:

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/07/ ... le-dragon/

I applaud your endeavour. I think it's a great idea and targets a void in the airgun market that hasn't been adequately met. I would pay $800 - $1,000 for something like that. If selling the designs to a large airgun company doesn't work out, you could always make them to order in small batches I suppose. Serious airgunners would pay more for exclusivity and custom work.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting article. If I were not concerned about weight, arc of travel of the pump arm and harder pump stroke, IE: 50 or 60 lb,s, I could potentially get 900 fps or more, using my valve and trigger system. And I might yet, just to see if I can. However, I wanted to attain 12 ft lb,s in an SSP because that,s what the british use for most of their pesting and target shooting. and in the world market, 12 ft lb,s seem,s to be considered "full" power. If the new prototype still only gets under 600 fps and under 12 ft lb,s, then, I may have to go a bit bigger. I should know in a couple of weeks.
As for custom building ? Impossible. Without my friend Wayne, AKA ,Watertown, This whole idea would still be just that. He is graciously doing almost all of the machining and purchasing special tools and metal, to make this idea a reality. He,s 67 yrs old, I doubt he would be interested or able to do it, nor am I.
My gut tells me this will go down in history, forgotten, and never see store shelves, but If I don't try, I'll always wonder .

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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:27 pm 
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joe hickey wrote:
TriggerHappy416 wrote:
Here's another rendition of the idea:

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/07/ ... le-dragon/

I applaud your endeavour. I think it's a great idea and targets a void in the airgun market that hasn't been adequately met. I would pay $800 - $1,000 for something like that. If selling the designs to a large airgun company doesn't work out, you could always make them to order in small batches I suppose. Serious airgunners would pay more for exclusivity and custom work.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting article. If I were not concerned about weight, arc of travel of the pump arm and harder pump stroke, IE: 50 or 60 lb,s, I could potentially get 900 fps or more, using my valve and trigger system. And I might yet, just to see if I can. However, I wanted to attain 12 ft lb,s in an SSP because that,s what the british use for most of their pesting and target shooting. and in the world market, 12 ft lb,s seem,s to be considered "full" power. If the new prototype still only gets under 600 fps and under 12 ft lb,s, then, I may have to go a bit bigger. I should know in a couple of weeks.
As for custom building ? Impossible. Without my friend Wayne, AKA ,Watertown, This whole idea would still be just that. He is graciously doing almost all of the machining and purchasing special tools and metal, to make this idea a reality. He,s 67 yrs old, I doubt he would be interested or able to do it, nor am I.
My gut tells me this will go down in history, forgotten, and never see store shelves, but If I don't try, I'll always wonder .


Congrats to you both upon such an endevour.
Joe by chance did you search patents to see if the valve system exists already? Curiousity here.

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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:11 am 
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I have searched the internet, but cant find anything close.

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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:49 pm 
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I would definitely take a second look at your final design, Joe. However, for me, I am a hardcore repeater fan and cherish rapid followup shots. If this could offer three or four shots on a full reservoir, that'd be worth a third or fourth look. Price point; $600-$800.
Finally, make a modifiable sub 500 model....then it's available to everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:56 pm 
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Seems to me if you "cherish rapid follow-up shots" then an SSP is not the right tool for the job. An SSP is for slow fire single shots, and an accurate SSP should be all a hunter needs for a single quarry at appropriate range for that hunter's skill level. Different story for multiple quarry, such as attempting to take down more than one rat in a barn. For that, a magazine on a PCP seems more sensible.


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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:13 pm 
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GerardSamija wrote:
Seems to me if you "cherish rapid follow-up shots" then an SSP is not the right tool for the job. An SSP is for slow fire single shots, and an accurate SSP should be all a hunter needs for a single quarry at appropriate range for that hunter's skill level. Different story for multiple quarry, such as attempting to take down more than one rat in a barn. For that, a magazine on a PCP seems more sensible.


Joe wanted feedback.....this is feedback. Just food for thought.

Lastly, I am a pretty good shot....but sometimes the gopher ducks or the wind picks up suddenly...thus, a quick followup is usually beneficial.

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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:29 pm 
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Sure, in such circumstances a follow-up shot could be very useful. Or several shots in rapid succession for that matter. I was only suggesting that to expect such performance from an SSP isn't realistic. Akin to expecting precision at 10 metres from a CO2 BB pistol, or back yard quiet shooting from an AirForce Texan. Follow-up shots from an SSP aren't going to happen. Now the FX Independence, that's a different story... but it's not a true SSP. While it shares much of the same linkage machinery as an SSP, it's a multi-pump, hence the ability to store sufficient volume for several shots before it needs topping up again. A multi-shot PCP is going to remain your best bet for the kind of hunting you're doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:09 am 
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Gerard is right. I do appreciate "all" suggestions, and having the breach designed as a repeater, is something I hoped to have on this gun, similar to the Daisy 853, but, for quick followup shooting, an SSP is not, nor should be your weapon of choice. The springer,s aren't quick followup shooters either, and this gun can be pumped and fired again, faster than a springer, even as a single shot.
Lastly, the power of each shot can be maximum or less, depending on how far the pump arm is swung. Less pump stroke equals less power, and it would not take long for an owner to get used to judging how much pump stroke to apply for various distances, and pellet speed. Indoor paper punching at 10 yds for instance, might only require 3/4,s of a stroke.
As for building it to open a larger market of Non PAL users, that would be up to the manufacturer. As stated before, this particular setup is aimed at 12 ft lb,s, but more or less power is easily attainable by going bogger or smaller by changing the tube dimensions and pump arm swing. In fact, This gun compresses 10.6 CI of air. I have started on another gun that compresses 55.6 CI of air. A big bulky ugly looking beast, not practical for anything, except as a potato cannon, but mainly to see if it can be done.

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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:08 am 
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joe hickey wrote:
I have searched the internet, but cant find anything close.


So your saying you did search thru the patents site? Or just a general internet?

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 Post subject: Re: Gauging interest
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:35 pm 
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Whitewolf wrote:
joe hickey wrote:
I have searched the internet, but cant find anything close.


So your saying you did search thru the patents site? Or just a general internet?


Searching patent,s requires a lot of reading and comprehension of the language used describing actions and parts. Schematics are not always available to quickly discount a particular valve design. So NO, I did not actually " search" the patent sites. Since I will not personally be patenting the valve and trigger, I really don't see the need. Who ever buys the gun, can do that. One of the ways to sell an invention and bypass the patent, is to build a working prototype, and sell that. Like the james bond or mission impossible movies where someone steals a prototype computer chip or something. Plans and schematics are more easily stolen and cloned if they are available for scrutiny online, than a working prototype in my hand,s.

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