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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:47 am
Posts: 1
Has anyone read this book or made the rifle in it?

"The Toolmakers Airgun" by Paul Betts

I found it on amazon and was wondering if anyone had built the rifle in it or knew anything about it.

https://www.amazon.com/Toolmakers-Airgu ... ers+airgun


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
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Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
Ordered!
Never saw that book before!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:58 pm 
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Posts: 142
Location: Canadian Prairies
Reminds me of the one mentioned in the Airgun Academy blog:

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2015/11/the-magic-of-the-outside-lock-part-1/
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2015/11/the-magic-of-the-outside-lock-part-2/

ColdAir


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:21 pm
Posts: 431
Location: Ontario
I ordered the book. It is 94 pages.

The idea is interesting but the book is terrible.

The guy mentioned that he is not a writer nor a draughtsman. I have not trouble to believe that.

There are about 63 small incomplete drawings/sketches drowned in the 94 pages of written instructions.

Trying to make sense of it is very painful. I already spent over 5 hours trying to make CAD models of the parts and I am not even halfway (p. 35), so I am not sure how many more hours will be needed to finish the task. There is no way that I would start waisting actual material until I know that it could work virtually.

I am teaching computer drafting and this is an exercice in frustration.

Drafting exists exactly because it is easier to communicate size and shape very accurately without having to use words.

The only thing close to an assembly drawing would be the photo on the top cover.

An actual assembly drawing with the parts list and balloons ID is sorely missed. Furthermore all the small pictures are a mish mash of imperial and metric dimensions which, being also incomplete, force you to read the whole text before being able to obtain all the required information. Relating one sketch to another in order to mach features is very difficult and sometime nearly impossible.

I thought that this would be a book where the gun was built from the butt reservoir to the front sight at the end of the barrel. The picture on the cover shows it all. It is only covering the parts for the action.

The other annoying thing is the endless repeating of "study the sketch". I guess that all of them put together it woud take up about 5 pages of the book.

At $50, it is not a good deal for what it is. With the addition of a set of formal ortographic drawings, it might have been worthwhile but as it is, I would not recommend it ... Unless you would like to torture yourself.

Maybe I am masochistic but once I start a project, I have trouble to let go. I will continue until I finish my CAD models and I will probably make another post to show some results.

R-Gun Pete


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:35 pm 
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Posts: 2415
Location: Northeastern Ontario
R-Gun Pete wrote:
I ordered the book. It is 94 pages.

The idea is interesting but the book is terrible.

The guy mentioned that he is not a writer nor a draughtsman. I have not trouble to believe that.


It would appear that this book is one of those that is "self-published". The "publisher" of the book is Redd Ink Press which says of itself:

"Redd Ink Press is a purveyor of knowledge and information for the serious firearms enthusiast. We are not a “self publishing” service or a “Vanity Press.” We are a trade publication that specializes in the rare and unique subject areas of arms and armament that many major publishing companies, in todays world, consider too politically incorrect to print. It is for the purpose of introducing and furthering this unique knowledge that Redd Ink Press was born." http://www.reddinkpress.com/index.php/o ... or-authors

There don't seem to be many, if any, other books published by Redd Ink to this point.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:07 am 
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Location: Central West River Nova Scotia
There are a number of unscrupulous people selling plan,s for airguns that look good on paper, but have never actually been built. Caveat emptor my friends.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:21 pm
Posts: 431
Location: Ontario
To clarify my earlier post, I just want to say that I didn't want to imply that the guy was a fraud or a fake but only that he was lacking in communication skills.

This being said the information is in the book, it is just that it is necessary to dig really hard to extract it.

With a set of properly prepared drawings, I should have been able to recreate the CAD models in a few hours, instead it took me over 2 days of hard work to make sense of the information and there are still a few gray areas.

As I am at home on vacation, my computer has only a stand alone version of my CAD software from which I cannot print so I took a serie of pictures of the monitor screen.

Anyway I am happy with the result and you would be able to compare the original book cover with my CAD model to see that they are very close.

Image

Image

As the photo on the cover is the only one available, we cannot see what the other side looks like. With my model it is now possible.

Here are some pictures with different orientations.

Image

Image

Image

The following images show a cut away of the valve and the trigger mechanism.

Image

Image

The last 2 pictures show the loading tap in the closed and opened positions.

Image

Image

My model is not completely finished. I have to figured the o-rings size and to insert them in the assembly. There are other details that require some fine tuning.

I will see if I still have enough energy to prepare some fully dimensioned drawings at some point.

For now, I think I will take a break.

R-Gun Pete


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:57 pm
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Location: mb
R-Gun Pete wrote:
. . . . My model is not completely finished. . . .

What you have so-far is pretty darned awesome IMHO. Pretty evident you've got skill and talent. Two thumbs up!

Do you have any other AG renderings? What else are you holding out from us? :wink:

I can appreciate the relative simplicity of the design, but have you given any thought to rendering the design, with more modern aesthetic?

Very interesting project. Nice work!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:13 am 
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Location: Northeastern Ontario
R-Gun Pete wrote:
To clarify my earlier post, I just want to say that I didn't want to imply that the guy was a fraud or a fake but only that he was lacking in communication skills.

This being said the information is in the book, it is just that it is necessary to dig really hard to extract it.

With a set of properly prepared drawings, I should have been able to recreate the CAD models in a few hours, instead it took me over 2 days of hard work to make sense of the information and there are still a few gray areas.

As I am at home on vacation, my computer has only a stand alone version of my CAD software from which I cannot print so I took a serie of pictures of the monitor screen.

Anyway I am happy with the result and you would be able to compare the original book cover with my CAD model to see that they are very close.

Image

As the photo on the cover is the only one available, we cannot see what the other side looks like. With my model it is now possible.

Here are some pictures with different orientations.

Image

Image

Image

The following images show a cut away of the valve and the trigger mechanism.

Image

My model is not completely finished. I have to figured the o-rings size and to insert them in the assembly. There are other details that require some fine tuning.


R-Gun Pete, thank you for your pictures. They are informative and convey the kind of details that ought to be included in a "book" about the airgun in question. The unfortunate shortcomings of the Betts book appear to explain why it was, in effect, self-published.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:21 pm
Posts: 431
Location: Ontario
Hi vAgRaNt!

Thanks for the comment.

I am not sure if you started to read the post from the beginning but this is not my design.

The conceptor is Paul Bett and I just recreated the model from his information (which was a bit tricky to follow), it is like if I have done the machining of the parts as per instruction but in virtual mode only.

I like the look of the airgun as it is because it is a mix of antique and modern.

The only modification I might attempt, would to verify if it would be possible to adapt it for a 12g CO2 cartridge and have an actual wood stock instead of the buddy bottle.

Thanks Penage Guy, it seems that you wrote your post at the same time that I did mine.

R-Gun Pete


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:52 am 
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Location: mb
R-Gun Pete wrote:
. . . this is not my design. . . I like the look . . . only modification I might attempt . . . adapt it for a 12g CO2 . . .

Yup, I understood from the beginning; your rendering of a particularly poorly written manuscript. Impressive work. All the more so, due to the diligence applied to decipher the texts. Bravo.
CO2, Eh? Very cool. I look forward to you updating this thread from time to time. Very interesting thread to start with, and even more so due to your involvement.
Really like the wood stock concept. The rear cylinder leaves me cold. Does CAD let you easily reshape a design, or is it more akin to re-writing code?. . . :rolleyes:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:21 pm
Posts: 431
Location: Ontario
Hi vAgRaNt!

The software I am using is SolidWorks. It is a 3D parametric modeler. This means the part is feature based and driven by its dimensions so making modification is fairly easy.

Once a working assembly is made, it is possible to apply mates in such way to leave some degree of freedom on some parts so they could act as a mechanism. It could then be checked for interference or proper path.

Basically once the model is completed to satisfaction, it can be used to prepare a set of drawings that could be followed by a machinist. This requires some thought about which views to show and the dimensioning scheme to use so the part is easy to manufacture. Those drawings are still linked to the CAD file so any changes made will update the drawing associated with it. This is a huge improvement on the drafting table of the past.

The other advantages of the CAD model file is that once ready it can be used to create a plastic rapid prototype on a 3D printer or the part can be transfered to a CAM software to be prepared for CNC manufacturing.

Finally, I agree with you, the buddy bottle is not the more aesthetic look. I think the whole concept was based on antique PCP long guns and some were using a tapered reservoir covered with leather as the stock.

I am glad to see that some people enjoyed the post.

Have a nice day.

R-Gun Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:47 am
Posts: 3
Hi I know you posted some years ago how did you get on with the designe ? the book is confusing at times :cry:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:21 pm
Posts: 431
Location: Ontario
Hi Ranger357!

I worked on the CAD model during the summer which is not that long ago.

That project went on the backburner because I acquired a Crosman 451 and due to a design flaw in the hammer construction I didn't want to shoot it in its original state.

I made a new hammer for it but it was a saga that took me a lot of time since I am also working at a full time job too.

So, in short, I am not sure if I will ever make the rifle because it requires some skills and equipment that I don't have (welding and soldering).

It was a fun project (a bit frustrating at time) to make a virtual model of it and this was enough of a challenge to satisfy me.

On the other hand, if you need clarification with some parts I might be able to help. There are no guaranties that I am 100% right but at least the geometry makes sense.

R-Gun Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:47 am
Posts: 3
Hi R-Gun Pete

Thanks for replying I can understand the frustration at times ! I am fortunatly a trained welder so could make that part with confidence as for silver soldering is actually easier than it looks and with a little practise you can pick it up in no time.

I am getting there with understanding the parts and think i will have to do a few sketches of my own if I decide to have a go making it. Your CAD images look good though and a bit more understandable. If you have any pointers on the designe as you see it I would be greatful.

Ranger357


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