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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:30 am 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
Need numbers as in code #'s.

I don't know who CGN is and really don't care. I also don't care that you have an unlicensed or licensed business buying & selling firearms - with over 400 transactions in 15 years? What I want are numbers of the code sections that says I as a private citizen MUST see the P.A.L. or get the name and number of that person's P.A.L.

Just this last year, I bought many thousands or dollars in firearms. Yes, I have a valid P.A.L. I have to have a valid P.A.L. & a valid gun club membership due to the restricted firearms and prohibited firearms I already legally own. If that isn't good enough for you - I won't do business with you. NP - don't care.

Show me some Criminal Code numbers.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:22 pm 
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Daryl wrote:
Need numbers as in code #'s.

I don't know who CGN is and really don't care. I also don't care that you have an unlicensed or licensed business buying & selling firearms - with over 400 transactions in 15 years? What I want are numbers of the code sections that says I as a private citizen MUST see the P.A.L. or get the name and number of that person's P.A.L.

Just this last year, I bought many thousands or dollars in firearms. Yes, I have a valid P.A.L. I have to have a valid P.A.L. & a valid gun club membership due to the restricted firearms and prohibited firearms I already legally own. If that isn't good enough for you - I won't do business with you. NP - don't care.

Show me some Criminal Code numbers.


CGN Canadian largest firearm buy and sell group. Jeez airgunners are paranoid and older ones are quite rude. You are aware airguns over 500 FPS are considered firearms in the criminal code. If you want to take someone word they got a license. Good, just don't cry when you get a visit from police when he doesn't because you didn't check.


www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/sell-vendre-eng.htmI

So when we had a registry. Your saying you never gave out your PAL number?

wouldn't want to deal with you out of rudeness. Because I don't want to lose my guns because I didn't make sure the person had a actual license.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6089
Location: P.G. B.C.
web page not found was what I got back.

As to being rude - if someone doesn't agree with you and asks for proof of your claim- that's rude? No - you are the rude one.

I merely asked for the proof of your seemingly "paranoid" claim that I had to see PROOF of license.

Whis is what I got from your attempt at the address.

We couldn't find that Web page (Error 404) / Nous ne pouvons trouver cette page Web (Erreur 404)
We couldn't find that Web page (Error 404)

We're sorry you ended up here. Sometimes a page gets moved or deleted, but hopefully we can help you find what you're looking for.

Return to the home page

Nous ne pouvons trouver cette page Web (Erreur 404)

Nous sommes désolés que vous ayez abouti ici. Il arrive parfois qu'une page ait été déplacée ou supprimée. Heureusement, nous pouvons vous aider à trouver ce que vous cherchez.

Retournez à la page d'accueil

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:49 am 
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Daryl wrote:
web page not found

Me too!

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/sell-vendre-eng.htm

No horse in this race, just squared up the link. . . .

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:20 am 
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Location: South Calgary
How in the world did this thread get to name calling?!?
After reviewing the original post, I'm not sure if the question was if the provided information was enough, or the post was a warning to others here to be aware of a possible scam.
I think I saw in this thread where 400 firearms were sold/bought in 15 years ... that would indicate to me that you are more familiar with the required code then most of us here.
According to the link that you provided, (after dropping the "l" off the html, it spells out quite clearly what to do. If you are not convinced of the legality of the provided information, just don't sell to him, period.

From that link:

Transfers of non-restricted firearms can be conducted without contacting the CFP, as registration is no longer required for this class of firearm. The transferor is nevertheless required to verify that the transferee has a valid PAL. The transferor can call the CFP toll-free number (1-800-731-4000) to confirm the validity of the transferee's licence before making a sale.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:35 am 
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Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Daryl wrote:
web page not found was what I got back.

As to being rude - if someone doesn't agree with you and asks for proof of your claim- that's rude? No - you are the rude one.

I merely asked for the proof of your seemingly "paranoid" claim that I had to see PROOF of license.

Whis is what I got from your attempt at the address.

We couldn't find that Web page (Error 404) / Nous ne pouvons trouver cette page Web (Erreur 404)
We couldn't find that Web page (Error 404)

We're sorry you ended up here. Sometimes a page gets moved or deleted, but hopefully we can help you find what you're looking for.

Return to the home page

Nous ne pouvons trouver cette page Web (Erreur 404)

Nous sommes désolés que vous ayez abouti ici. Il arrive parfois qu'une page ait été déplacée ou supprimée. Heureusement, nous pouvons vous aider à trouver ce que vous cherchez.

Retournez à la page d'accueil


Sorry its part of the firearm act. I was on my mobile phone so sorry webpage from the RCMP firearm act didnt work. No need to go off the deep handle.

Well Sir your the one that had to go I don't know what CGN is or I don't care that I had 400 posts. So you started being rude.

So how did you do firearm transfer before the registry was gone? Because your the paranoid one not to show your PAL or give the info that required to verify. I did not ask this member for a photo of his pal I asked for his PAL number to confirm with the RCMP. Hes the on that sent me that poor photo.

Also proof of a gun club isn't proof that you got a license, feedback of the person doesn't mean he got a license.

AND yes this is a PSA that there is a member here throwing around a what appears to be a firearm license but you cannot tell. If you want to accept that poor photo as proof, than risk is on you.

Have a good day.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:29 pm
Posts: 50
Darryl,

Just interested to know why you make the distinction about seeing a PAL at a gunshow to confirm and not during a sale on the 'net.

Tb

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:52 pm
Posts: 7162
Location: Vancouver Island BC
Stay on topic and play nice .............


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:32 pm
Posts: 48
This article might shed some light. http://new.nfa.ca/clarifications-regard ... d-firearm/

Section 23 of the Firearms Act:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts ... ml#docCont

"23 A person may transfer a non-restricted firearm if, at the time of the transfer,
(a) the transferee holds a licence authorizing the transferee to acquire and possess that kind of firearm; and
(b) the transferor has no reason to believe that the transferee is not authorized to acquire and possess that kind of firearm."

Section 101 of the criminal code section:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts ... .html#h-41

"Transfer without authority
101 (1) Every person commits an offence who transfers a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm, a non-restricted firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, any ammunition or any prohibited ammunition to any person otherwise than under the authority of the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under an Act of Parliament.
Marginal note:Punishment
(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction."

In the case of non-restricted transfers, while the transferor (vendor) having no reason to not believe the buyer is possesing a valid and non-expired PAL at the time of the transfer, they may be subject to criminal prosecution if they forego viewing the PAL and the buyer does not have a valid license.

In leadslinger's first post, there is insufficient proof of valid PAL. The buyer may in fact have a valid PAL, and did not provide enough image/data due to concerns about scammers, leadslinger has to protect himself from prosecution if indeed the buyer is false and the firearm is used in some criminal act. Better safe than in jail...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6089
Location: P.G. B.C.
tinbird wrote:
Darryl,

Just interested to know why you make the distinction about seeing a PAL at a gunshow to confirm and not during a sale on the 'net.

Tb


It is all open to interpretation - by a court. At the local gun show, due to the presence of on-duty police-person's who may or may not know the current case law, I demand the display of the perspective person's P.A.L.

I was advised, thought it was here, but might have been at a gun club meeting with the local CFO, on-line declarations by the prospective 'Canadian' buyer were all that was necessary. I have canvassed the local lads and am awaiting their return mail on this very topic.


This statement- I could not find in the code!

"Transfer without authority
101 (1) Every person commits an offence who transfers a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm, a non-restricted firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, any ammunition or any prohibited ammunition to any person otherwise than under the authority of the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under an Act of Parliament.
Marginal note:Punishment
(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction."

In the case of non-restricted transfers, while the transferor (vendor) having no reason to not believe the buyer is possesing a valid and non-expired PAL at the time of the transfer, they may be subject to criminal prosecution if they forego viewing the PAL and the buyer does not have a valid license.

In leadslinger's first post, there is insufficient proof of valid PAL. The buyer may in fact have a valid PAL, and did not provide enough image/data due to concerns about scammers, leadslinger has to protect himself from prosecution if indeed the buyer is false and the firearm is used in some criminal act. Better safe than in jail...


I read through 3 pages (one before and one after as well) twice and could not find the emboldened statement. Are these YOUR words, you interpretation as-are the words in the next statement/sentence concerning leadslinger's post, or are they actually in the code that the seller MUST see the P.A.L.?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:58 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
OK - after reading the notes from the NFA attorney, Guy, I agree that the P.A.L. may be viewed - picture and date of expiry, as I do at gun shows.

This changes when buying online, however.

I should note here, that only providing the buyer's name and P.A.L. # is necessary to purchase a firearm online. This has been the MO for Wholesale Sports, Cabeles and other firearms/airgun stores that we deal with right here on the air gun site. Thus, actually seeing the card is not necessary as those shops (supposedly) check with the CFO on purchases - name and # is all that is needed- iot seems.

I hereby acknowledge my error in interpretation. I did not 'read' the "and" between sections A and B. Still, I also did not read a section that says the seller must SEE the P.A.L. if not calling the CFO for verification on the name and #. Such are the gun laws in Canada- open to interpretation by every court barring, any case law, of course, which may or may not be followed by future courts.

"Section 23 of the Firearms Act states two conditions for the transfer of a non-restricted firearm to be legally made:

23 A person may transfer a non-restricted firearm if, at the time of the transfer,
(a) the transferee holds a licence authorizing the transferee to acquire and possess that kind of firearm; and
(b) the transferor has no reason to believe that the transferee is not authorized to acquire and possess that kind of firearm."

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:33 pm 
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We are all just watching out for our fellow members, whether it be from scammers or keep us on the right side of the law! Hope that helped!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2839
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Nothing be worst than loosing 10s of thousand of dollars in firearms, spending 10s of thousands of dollars in legal fees, and having a criminal record. Because you as the seller didn't make sure the person you were selling to, was in possession of a valid license. His word isn't proof. Don't assume, you know the saying.

Like I said, it hasn't changed. Just don't need to call the CFC/RCMP anymore for them to transfer said firearm. 6 + years ago before the registry was scrapped. You had to get the guys name and PAL #, so why now shouldn't it be any different?

Now its up to you how you decide how to validate.

If you don't want to give that information out, your going to find it hard for people to sell or buy to you.

Here is a example.

Local FB buy and sell group there was this guy selling a 303. I guess he bought and sold a couple times. He was using this crappy photo to say he had a PAL.

After some people looked really at the photo he gave out. That said individual was using a expired minors permit, and a expired wildlife card. Also was 22 years old. The picture also contained drugs. That said guy was charged with assault prior and banned from owning firearms. He beat his GF. He was arrested after this attempted sale, for drugs and firearms possessions.

So why radar went up when this member here gave me that very poor scan.

No hard feelings Daryl.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:32 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
:D :D


Last edited by Daryl on Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6089
Location: P.G. B.C.
No - of course, no hard feelings here either.
I merely wanted to SEE/read something on this topic. So much shady info has been written as supposed to have been from "a" CFO - but likely not.
As far as showing a picture of my PAL for verification - that is not going to happen - ever, unless buying a rifle locally - as has happened a number of times this last couple years. I even had to show it for buying powder - ridiculous, but necessary in Wholesale Sports. I did get them corrected on not demanding P.A.L.'s for the purchase of bullets. Ammo, powder and primers - yes, bullets or brass - no.

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