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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:56 pm 
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Someone on here was wondering if there was room to shim a full power phantom spring for even MORE fps so I tried it.Could not even fit a 1/8th inch shim behind the spring without it being unable to set the trigger.They've crammed just about as much metal in the thicker spring as will fit behind the piston so there you have it....
Top spring...non pal
Bottom........full power

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:22 pm 
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A HA - need thicker wire! Of course, there is a limit in speed - accuracy wise.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:36 am 
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Well, that saves me some time.I was wondering about that.Makes me wonder though how the Ruger Air Magnum manages to pull 24 fpe out of their springer, as well as Hatsan and probably others.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:44 am 
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Justmyluck wrote:
Well, that saves me some time.I was wondering about that.Makes me wonder though how the Ruger Air Magnum manages to pull 24 fpe out of their springer, as well as Hatsan and probably others.


Swept volume. The compression tube is a larger diameter and the stroke is longer on the air magnum compared to the B18. There's more air to compress. It's like having a larger cartridge case for a powderburner.

Tune both rifles to 18fpe in .177. The Air magnum will be detuned from stock, and probably be a nice docile shooter. The B18 will be maxed out at 18fpe, hold sensitive, and not an easy gun to shoot well.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:30 pm 
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Wonder what increase in FPS can be obtained by shimming the sub pal version? I believe any 600 ft version for 177 is an improvement. In my mind with lighter and lighter ammunition about we will be constantly lowering the bar for standard lead pellets.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:51 pm 
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tango wrote:
Wonder what increase in FPS can be obtained by shimming the sub pal version? I believe any 600 ft version for 177 is an improvement. In my mind with lighter and lighter ammunition about we will be constantly lowering the bar for standard lead pellets.


Sub PAL version "may" also have the shorter piston with or without hole to go along with the weaker spring for power reduction.

Good thread here: http://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/topic66187.html

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Good to know, as is I am satisfied with the full power spring
Thanks for the post


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:28 pm 
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tango wrote:
Wonder what increase in FPS can be obtained by shimming the sub pal version? I believe any 600 ft version for 177 is an improvement. In my mind with lighter and lighter ammunition about we will be constantly lowering the bar for standard lead pellets.


Done that already...maximum shim with the non pal spring in .177 gave me 670 fps with a cp 7.4 gr. :D

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:30 pm 
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offroad720 wrote:
Good to know, as is I am satisfied with the full power spring
Thanks for the post



Yes.....950 fps with a 7.4 is quite enough...I agree...and you're welcome. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:36 am 
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MyCrosman wrote:
Done that already...maximum shim with the non pal spring in .177 gave me 670 fps with a cp 7.4 gr. :D


You shimmed a sub pal .177 Phantom and got some 200fps improvement with typical lead pellets? Am I reading this right?
Any idea what gain would result from a .22 Phantom?
Can you show us how you did this? Would like to see pics of the shim you made. Better yet, write us a DIY like leadslinger did, with lots of pics!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:19 am 
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Joolz wrote:
MyCrosman wrote:
Done that already...maximum shim with the non pal spring in .177 gave me 670 fps with a cp 7.4 gr. :D


You shimmed a sub pal .177 Phantom and got some 200fps improvement with typical lead pellets? Am I reading this right?
Any idea what gain would result from a .22 Phantom?
Can you show us how you did this? Would like to see pics of the shim you made. Better yet, write us a DIY like leadslinger did, with lots of pics!


A .22 non pal phantom with a "maxed out" shimmed spring will end up at around 530 fps..using a 14.3 Crosman Pointed..I don't remember the fps before the shim...just what I ended up with.I found the Crosman Hollow points slower than the pointed pellets .No need for a visual step by step depiction.Its a simple matter of a 1 inch long copper tube (home depot) placed behind the spring(over the rear guide )with washer between the spring and copper tube..Be sure to have a PAL in hand BEFORE you do this mod.......

Shimmed spring results:

Crosman Pointed.......…......530 fps
Daisy Hollow Points...........550 fps
Crosman Hollow Points.....525 fps
H&N Pointed(15.74 gr).......497 fps

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:33 am 
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Yeah, simple and easy indeed. But unfortunately both my Phantoms (2 diff variations of the same model) are .22 and the gain doesn't justify the trouble - so will proceed with plans to get a full spring for one of them.

The other would be great if I could swap barrels to a .177 (and either do the shim mod or get a full spring). Someone locally was selling a .177 recently but I didn't want a third Phantom. But would like to have a target one and a hunting one, so a possible barrel swap could work. Will have to propose this to the forum members and see if there any takers. At least I assume swapping barrels to be that easy, I have no idea and would only proceed if accuracy isn't compromised. After all accuracy is why I love them Phantoms (and the ergo, stock, open sights despite them being fibre optics).

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:18 am 
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Joolz wrote:
Yeah, simple and easy indeed. But unfortunately both my Phantoms (2 diff variations of the same model) are .22 and the gain doesn't justify the trouble - so will proceed with plans to get a full spring for one of them.

The other would be great if I could swap barrels to a .177 (and either do the shim mod or get a full spring). Someone locally was selling a .177 recently but I didn't want a third Phantom. But would like to have a target one and a hunting one, so a possible barrel swap could work. Will have to propose this to the forum members and see if there any takers. At least I assume swapping barrels to be that easy, I have no idea and would only proceed if accuracy isn't compromised. After all accuracy is why I love them Phantoms (and the ergo, stock, open sights despite them being fibre optics).


This is my Phantom 500 .22....at least it was originally a .22...now has.new full power spring.....sights removed...3-9x40 AO scope....177 nitro venom barrel with shroud....sleeved and buttoned piston...shimmed barrel block washers for a great lockup..and it shoots 7.4 gr at 949 fps....but I use 8.64 gr in the 875 range.....

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:36 am 
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Looks nice with the shroud. So the Phantom didn't come from Crosman in .177? Is the only way to get them in .177 by purchasing a third party barrel?
The one being sold locally showed a pic with open sights, wonder if the owner just installed the stock open sights onto the new barrel.
I sure don't need two of them in .22 and plan to open them up to see if either model has the relief hole I can just plug. If so I wouldn't bother replacing the spring. If not will look at getting a full power spring and hopefully turn the other into a .177. And this from someone that was hesitant to get a Phantom in the first place, in part due to all the negative views of cheap Chinese guns from many of the members here. Now I have two and loving them. Guess it says much about how truly personal opinions are.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:54 pm 
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I shimmed and blocked the relief hole on a 495 FPS 177 Crosman Vantage. Went from like 470 to 750 FPS with 8.2grns. Cocks easier than a full power one.


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